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It's interesting... I read an article that said there is almost always an increase in antisemitic incidents during periods when there are nationalist and pseudo nationalist movements. Maybe we can blame this on the teabaggers? As much fun as it would be, I doubt there is a real connection-- although-- I do see a lot of hate being stirred up in that movement. That aligned with the silly BS about the Jews controlling the banks, congress, etc., could add up to something like this display.
Of course it is the teabaggers idiot. And the throw Lieberman out by the lefty loons is really a right wing conspiracy
I never spoke on a global level, only a personal one.
The thing is that the Nazi issue is one that's highly emotional for me. I'm not talking about genocides in general, I'm talking about the Holocaust that affected my family and therefore is something that hurts me in a more personal way.
Imagine seeing a man with a number tattooed on his arm from his days in a concentration camp. Imagine this man "lost" his wife and baby in this concentration camp (i.e. they were put in ovens by the Nazis). Imagine that you've never seen this man without wet eyes -- his eyes are always moist because he "can't forget." Imagine this man was your great-uncle and you'd only seen him smile a handful of times. Heartbreaking, right?
So while I won't speak about "other Hitlers", and while I won't define what "tolerate" means to me, I can only say that a swastika or talk of Nazis makes my head hurt and my heart break even more.
You can't put words in my mouth or in my head when I'm only speaking from the heart.
Fair enough, I can't "get on" someone for having an emotional "issue" - most of us do in some way shape or form.
*MY* only issue with your post is to see whether you are one of those "voters" who votes based on their personal circumstance or "what's in it for me". IOW, because of my personal *feelings*, I suppport X and denounce Y even though the constitution/law/reality whatever says and requires otherwise.
There were Nazi sympathizers in the U.S. when WWII was going on - some I'm sure due to "personal issues" Thankfully we didn't "tolerate" their viewpoint . Understand?
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Originally Posted by blakesq
It is a liberal position to be all in favor of the bill of rights, except when it protects things they do not like. For instance, the 2nd amendment, and the 1st amendment. Plus, I am not defending nazi scum, I am defending the bill of rights. I hate nazi scum and muslim terrorist scum. But, I do not claim to be tolerant like many libs. Progressive ideas are way more objectionable, because people do not buy into nazi crap, but they do buy progressive malarky.
Blake, they won't understand that the "progressive" movement is detrimental to our nation. It's a warped sense of "feel goodness" combined with "justice for all" and "sudo responsibility" (nevermind the poor X kid in the corner - I don't see him.)
Some say Liberalism is a mental disorder - Sometimes I wonder.
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Originally Posted by kidyankee764
I don't really get what JV's point is. .
Really?
Okay, I'll assume you are sincere.
My point is, I find it LAUGHABLE that we are "up in arms" over a couple stupid punk kids who have no freakin idea what they are doing, yet Iran said "wipe Israel off the map" and they mean it, and most of the Islamic countries in the Middleast think Israel is a "problem" at best - yet the Jews in the United States are against most of what Israel is currently doing to protect themselves and rail against most of the conservatives who support a "strong Israel".
Where are the "I'm disgusted" posts about that? Hmmm?
Well, actually if I'm being "genuine" it's mostly the "secular" Jews who like to "nosh" among themselves but really go to synagogue every 7th year or only for special occasions. (BTW I would say the same for C and E Christians who "freak out" that "Christmas" or whatever is being "taken" from them. [C = Christmas and I think you can figure out the "E"] ) But hey, they "lit the menorah" and enjoy good "deli" now and again.
That's about as short and "direct" as I can put it.
My point is, I find it LAUGHABLE that we are "up in arms" over a couple stupid punk kids who have no freakin idea what they are doing, yet Iran said "wipe Israel off the map" and they mean it, and most of the Islamic countries in the Middleast think Israel is a "problem" at best - yet the Jews in the United States are against most of what Israel is currently doing to protect themselves and rail against most of the conservatives who support a "strong Israel".
Where are the "I'm disgusted" posts about that? Hmmm?
While we may have been wrong about Saddam's WMD's, I think a lot of the reason we were wrong (if we really fully were) was Israel's bold move against his nuclear reactor way back in 1981 and even Tony Blair (hardly a neocon) agrees in retrospect that nonetheless, "he wasn't a nice guy and needed to be dealt with". We need to think about Iran the way we think about the Taliban (at least in the way the right and surprisingly Obama and Hillary think about the Taliban, not the way Biden does.....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff
It's interesting... I read an article that said there is almost always an increase in antisemitic incidents during periods when there are nationalist and pseudo nationalist movements.
More accurately, it's during periods where there's extreme economic stress and gov't (or someone) wants to find a scapegoat to take the public's mind off it. Nazism formed during hyperinflation and gov't debt collapse in Germany followed by the Great Depression. The pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe heavily occured during a part of the late 1800s when much of the world was in economic malaise, etc.
So, free speech only applies to speech you agree with? I wonder, are you a liberal?
If you were a US soldier in Europe in the 1940's, how happy would you be to see that hated flag brandished in your home country? Doubtless many conservatives as well as liberals died because of what this symbol STILL stands for.
I don't have to be a WW2 soldier, I would be very unhappy seing a nazi flag flown. Are you liberals done calling everyone you disagree with nazi's or jihadi's? Let me know.
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Originally Posted by ExNooYawk
If you were a US soldier in Europe in the 1940's, how happy would you be to see that hated flag brandished in your home country? Doubtless many conservatives as well as liberals died because of what this symbol STILL stands for.
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 33,013,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JViello
Fair enough, I can't "get on" someone for having an emotional "issue" - most of us do in some way shape or form.
*MY* only issue with your post is to see whether you are one of those "voters" who votes based on their personal circumstance or "what's in it for me". IOW, because of my personal *feelings*, I suppport X and denounce Y even though the constitution/law/reality whatever says and requires otherwise.
There were Nazi sympathizers in the U.S. when WWII was going on - some I'm sure due to "personal issues" Thankfully we didn't "tolerate" their viewpoint . Understand?
Since we're using Zagat guide "finger quotes" all over the place...
... I'll say that "I" can't "vote" in this country "because" I'm not a "citizen"; I'm "Canadian."
... I wonder if "sometimes" you come on here just to take the "other" side -- in this "case" the non-Jewish "side" (this is the "second" time you've been anti-Jewish to me -- the "other" time was "about" delis) instead of "trying" to understand "how" this situation (the original story in this thread) "could" be hurtful to a Jew. Your combatativeness makes you seem very hateful, in my opinion.
I'm not going to post on this thread anymore because it's obvious it's being turned into a political issue (though you refuted that in a previous post but, alas, your most recent post, once again, turned to voting and legalities) when it began as a HUMAN issue.
yet the Jews in the United States are against most of what Israel is currently doing to protect themselves and rail against most of the conservatives who support a "strong Israel".
I think that has something to do with Jews in the US being a highly educated lot. As you know (and I am sure trumpet at times) the more educated people are the more politically progressive they tend to be. (Yes, I know, a generalization, but the trend line is there).
As a non-Messianic Jew (you know the kind that is actually Jewish) who has been active in the Jewish community for over 20 years, I can tell you that your generalizations are far from correct, reek of a holier-than-thou attitude, and really seem to expose a war-like stance without a true understand of the level of complexity of the problems that Israel faces.
There is a rapidly growing segment of American Jews that believe that true Zionism is wanting peace for Israel. Peace is a lot more likely if only the land within 1967 borders are considered Israel. It is simply not sustainable to be in a constant state of war, or constantly preparing for the next conflict.
Israel has a growing technology, start-up, and business community that with more investment will lead the world in technological growth. However, the unnecessary building of Jewish Settlements in the west bank simply provides ammunition for those anti-Israeli neighbors to attack, promote terrorism and for Iran to support it. No, it's not the only reason that the increasingly unpopular Iranian government hates Israel, but it has provided an Arab rallying point. Israel has made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and has a begrudging peace with Syria.
Continuing to foster animosity with the Palestinians serves not only to prevent a begrudging peace over the border issue, but serves to divide the populations in the countries with which Israel has made peace.
So as you beat your chest (and apparently pass judgement on the Jewish population of the United States) realize that you can be as Zionist as you are without supporting a constant state of war.
Somehow I doubt you'll come around, and twist what I am saying in to some indictment of progressives and inflation of your own position and ego.
I don't have to be a WW2 soldier, I would be very unhappy seing a nazi flag flown. Are you liberals done calling everyone you disagree with nazi's or jihadi's? Let me know.
How does this attitude help move us forward and towards ends we can all agree on? There is nothing substantive or useful about simply calling everyone who disagrees with you a liberal and making yourself appear to be a victim.
I started this thread because I am concerned about the growing number of anti-semitic incidents that are occurring where I live... Does this concern you? If so, great, Thanks for posting and expressing your support...
If it doesn't concern you, that's fine too. There are other threads for you to contribute too.
The reaction of people has definitely gone from the supportive to the ridiculous.
Every thread that discusses anything remotely political or legal cannot turn in to a progressive versus conservative battle... if that's really what you want, keep it up.
When I express my opinion, agree, disagree, or be neutral... That's up to you. But you don't really contribute by further diving people on issues that we should all agree upon.
You yourself admitted that you found the Nazi doctrine less objectionable than progressive doctrine. I think that's an insane position, and probably why people were so incensed.
Blake, they won't understand that the "progressive" movement is detrimental to our nation. It's a warped sense of "feel goodness" combined with "justice for all" and "sudo responsibility" (nevermind the poor X kid in the corner - I don't see him.)
Some say Liberalism is a mental disorder - Sometimes I wonder.
When you misrepresent what the progressive movement is about, I doesn't sound so good to me either. However, it's not about any of those things. However, I am all for feeling good. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't be. I am also not sure why you wouldn't want everyone to have equal justice.
This essay from HuffPo expresses the feelings behind the Progressive Movement better than I ever could. I hope you read it. Even if you don't agree with it, it certainly speaks to me about why I consider myself a progressive:
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