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Old 06-04-2012, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Houston
471 posts, read 1,375,248 times
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Your Blu-ray player doesn't have an optical or coaxial digital output? I've never heard of that before.

Also, unless your TV operates differently than TVs here in the States, its optical output will not transmit a 5.1 channel signal. That's because I've never heard of a TV with a built-in Dolby/DTS/Dolby TruHD/DTS-MA multichannel decoder. So what's probably coming out of its Toslink output is a stereo signal, using the PCM format, consisting of a downmixed version of what is transmitted via the TV's HDMI inputs.

The only situation I know of when a TV's digital output will transmit a true 5.1 channel signal - which will use the Dolby Digital format - is when its internal tuner is used and a program containing a 5.1 channel soundtrack is being broadcast.

To help see what's happening, check the receiver's info display when the TV's digital output is chosen: if the "Dolby Pro-Logic" indicator lights up, what you're (probably) hearing is the DPL software trying to extract the rear, center and LFE channels from that downmixed signal - sometimes it works, but usually not very well IMO, and sometimes it doesn't. FYI: if you play a movie encoded with an actual Dolby Surround soundtrack - many movies on VHS do - they can sound quite good, with full front-to-back directional effects and a decent center & subwoofer channel.

If you're seeing the "Dolby Digital" indicator light up AND the L, C, R, SR, SL and LFE indicators, then you should be hearing the actual multichannel soundtrack contained in the signals from the Roku, cable box or dvd player. FYI: I have never heard of a cable box or a media streamer like the Roku transmitting a DTS signal, probably because it is a much higher resolution format than DD & therefore uses much more bandwidth.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Cartersville, GA
1,255 posts, read 3,029,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Your Blu-ray player doesn't have an optical or coaxial digital output? I've never heard of that before.
Strange, but true.:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Also, unless your TV operates differently than TVs here in the States, its optical output will not transmit a 5.1 channel signal. That's because I've never heard of a TV with a built-in Dolby/DTS/Dolby TruHD/DTS-MA multichannel decoder. So what's probably coming out of its Toslink output is a stereo signal, using the PCM format, consisting of a downmixed version of what is transmitted via the TV's HDMI inputs.

The only situation I know of when a TV's digital output will transmit a true 5.1 channel signal - which will use the Dolby Digital format - is when its internal tuner is used and a program containing a 5.1 channel soundtrack is being broadcast.

To help see what's happening, check the receiver's info display when the TV's digital output is chosen: if the "Dolby Pro-Logic" indicator lights up, what you're (probably) hearing is the DPL software trying to extract the rear, center and LFE channels from that downmixed signal - sometimes it works, but usually not very well IMO, and sometimes it doesn't. FYI: if you play a movie encoded with an actual Dolby Surround soundtrack - many movies on VHS do - they can sound quite good, with full front-to-back directional effects and a decent center & subwoofer channel.

If you're seeing the "Dolby Digital" indicator light up AND the L, C, R, SR, SL and LFE indicators, then you should be hearing the actual multichannel soundtrack contained in the signals from the Roku, cable box or dvd player. FYI: I have never heard of a cable box or a media streamer like the Roku transmitting a DTS signal, probably because it is a much higher resolution format than DD & therefore uses much more bandwidth.
In my setup, it seems that the television simply takes the raw un-decoded digital signal from the Blu-ray player and passes it to the receiver via. and optical digital cable. The receiver then handles the decoding. This worked well, up until recently. The receiver display indicated a Dolby Digital signal, and the L, C, R, SR, SL and LFE indicators were lit up. I certainly seemed to be getting true multi-channel audio though the back speakers. The mystery is why it stopped working all the sudden.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Houston
471 posts, read 1,375,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToucheGA View Post
Strange, but true.:
Well I shouldn't be surprised I guess, because Panasonic is also one of the few companies that no longer include a component video output (for example Sony and many store-branded Blu-ray players still do).
Quote:
In my setup, it seems that the television simply takes the raw un-decoded digital signal from the Blu-ray player and passes it to the receiver via. and optical digital cable. The receiver then handles the decoding. This worked well, up until recently. The receiver display indicated a Dolby Digital signal, and the L, C, R, SR, SL and LFE indicators were lit up. I certainly seemed to be getting true multi-channel audio though the back speakers. The mystery is why it stopped working all the sudden.
Since Toslink and coaxial digital outputs cannot handle a data-intensive multichannel PCM stream that HDMI can handle, the TV must be stripping that off and sending just the Dolby Digital stream many Blu-ray discs include i.e. backwards compatibility, for people without an appropriate receiver. And IIRC, some players convert their PCM streams into a 1500kbps DTS stream for the same reason......and that's all I know about that subject!
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Cartersville, GA
1,255 posts, read 3,029,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Since Toslink and coaxial digital outputs cannot handle a data-intensive multichannel PCM stream that HDMI can handle, the TV must be stripping that off and sending just the Dolby Digital stream many Blu-ray discs include i.e. backwards compatibility, for people without an appropriate receiver. And IIRC, some players convert their PCM streams into a 1500kbps DTS stream for the same reason......and that's all I know about that subject!
If this is the case, why did it work before, and recently stop working?
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:50 AM
 
40,197 posts, read 41,799,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToucheGA View Post
If this is the case, why did it work before, and recently stop working?
Have you tried a different disc as I suggested?

Are you using the same disc or have you tried others? If it's the same disc pop a CD in or a disc that previously worked.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,904,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Well I shouldn't be surprised I guess, because Panasonic is also one of the few companies that no longer include a component video output (for example Sony and many store-branded Blu-ray players still do).
Since Toslink and coaxial digital outputs cannot handle a data-intensive multichannel PCM stream that HDMI can handle, the TV must be stripping that off and sending just the Dolby Digital stream many Blu-ray discs include i.e. backwards compatibility, for people without an appropriate receiver. And IIRC, some players convert their PCM streams into a 1500kbps DTS stream for the same reason......and that's all I know about that subject!
If what you suggest were true, he would still have audio. He is getting NOTHING. And it used to work.

That's why I think the blu-ray player is not sending the audio via HDMI. It seems other sources are working fine with an identical connection.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Houston
471 posts, read 1,375,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToucheGA View Post
If this is the case, why did it work before, and recently stop working?
I was just describing how the TV dealt with what a Blu-Ray player sends to it via the HDMI connection (Toslink/coaxial cannot handle the enormous amount of data contained in a 5.1 multichannel PCM stream. Dolby Digital and DTS are sissies compared to that! ).

Also, your receiver is too old to contain a decoder for the multichannel PCM formats (Dolby TruHD and DTS-MA), so when you see the indicator lights for L, C, R, SL, SR light up, they are indicating the presence of DD or DTS, not multichannel PCM. Though L & R should be lit when stereo PCM is sent to the receiver, from a CD or dvd player for example.*

As far as why it stopped working? That I don't know, but seeing as how complicated a Blu-Ray player is - they are basically single-purpose computers - I wouldn't be surprised if it needed a reset. Also, the HDMI format is notorious for acting squirrelly at random times with certain brands of gear: do a google search and you'll see what I mean.



* most receivers from that time could usually only handle up to the 48kHz/16bit PCM stereo format. If it was sent something with more resolution, say 48kHz/24bit, it would usually lop off that 24bit sample word to 16 bits. In the case of a 96kHz sampling rate, it would either downsample it to 48kHz or would simply refuse to decode it at all, resutling in silence.

Last edited by Lije Baley; 06-05-2012 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:23 PM
 
640 posts, read 622,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
It's almost certainly a setting somewhere. Audio outputs of the Bluray player most likely, assuming your receiver stays on the same input to receive the audio signal from your TV.

What Bluray player do you have?

It's surprising that since you're a self-professed A/V snob that you're using such an antiquated receiver and overall setup.
Yeah...sort of...

I'd bet the farm that it's a handshake issue between the HDMI/optical out differential of the TV and the receiver...in other words, the problem is the monitor.

Look at a receiver upgrade for single-cable passthrough.
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Old 06-05-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Houston
471 posts, read 1,375,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Allen 242 View Post
I'd bet the farm that it's a handshake issue between the HDMI/optical out differential of the TV and the receiver...in other words, the problem is the monitor.
Isn't it ridiculous that (if HDMI is the problem) that after nearly six years, this connection system is STILL causing problems for a lot of users?! I shouldn't be surprised though since IMO it's main purpose is to lower the rates of piracy - I'll bet we can blame paranoid/greedy studio execs for this - via its encryption system and anything else like improved image, hi-res audio etc is of totally secondary importance to their R&D department.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:51 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,940 posts, read 8,304,192 times
Reputation: 1042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post

Also, unless your TV operates differently than TVs here in the States, its optical output will not transmit a 5.1 channel signal. That's because I've never heard of a TV with a built-in Dolby/DTS/Dolby TruHD/DTS-MA multichannel decoder. So what's probably coming out of its Toslink output is a stereo signal, using the PCM format, consisting of a downmixed version of what is transmitted via the TV's HDMI inputs.

The only situation I know of when a TV's digital output will transmit a true 5.1 channel signal - which will use the Dolby Digital format - is when its internal tuner is used and a program containing a 5.1 channel soundtrack is being broadcast. . . . . . ..
This is exactly what I was thinking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Your Blu-ray player doesn't have an optical or coaxial digital output? I've never heard of that before.
As far as I know, DTS-HD can only be transmitted via HDMI, so it makes sense that some companies would delete the toslink option.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Lije Baley View Post
Isn't it ridiculous that (if HDMI is the problem) that after nearly six years, this connection system is STILL causing problems for a lot of users?!
hdfury.com !!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano
That's why I think the blu-ray player is not sending the audio via HDMI. It seems other sources are working fine with an identical connection.
I'm going to say that the audio is there, but as Lije said, its probably a decoding issue between the TV and receiver.

I will admit I'm not much of an expert on blu ray hardware; I use a PC w/ anydvdHD for blu ray so I haven't encountered any HDCP/decoding issues.
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