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Old 11-06-2016, 06:16 AM
 
921 posts, read 958,224 times
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So I am in the market for a new LED LCD TV and researching different models I have stumbled across the "Refresh Rate". The models I am looking at are all 120 Hz or 240 Hz. I have already done some research on Refresh Rates and I have not found a consistent answer. Some sources say that the Refresh Rate is important and gives you a crisper more fluid picture, whereas some sources say that the listed number is arbitrary and is merely a gimmick to get the consumer to pay more.

So, what do you think? Is the listed Refresh Rate on new TV's really important for viewing quality, or is it merely a gimmick?
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:31 AM
 
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There is a couple of factors here with the FPS of the source being the major one, most source video may only be 30 FPS. A higher refresh rate on the TV than the source FPS becomes redundant.

Furthermore consider how fluid a film source is, that may only be 24FPS and could be reproduced with 24Hz. Your eye sends what it sees to your brain, this is so much information it would overload your brain. A lot of that information is thrown out and the brain processes just what it needs basically chopping it up into frames. It will fill in the blanks if something is missing that it expects to see, this is why 24FPS or even as low 10FPS can look fluid. Off topic but this is also how many illusions are created by tricking the brain into creating something that is not there.


Everyone varies but generally speaking about 85FPS is considered the limits of what the average person is going to be able to see. 120Hz could reproduce 120FPS if the source is 120FPS... you see where this is going..
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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If the price difference between 120 and 240 is minimal, then sure. Why not. Otherwise.. just no.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,592 posts, read 55,510,434 times
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"Furthermore consider how fluid a film source is, that may only be 24FPS and could be reproduced with 24Hz. Your eye sends what it sees to your brain, this is so much information it would overload your brain. A lot of that information is thrown out and the brain processes just what it needs basically chopping it up into frames."

I understand what you are attempting to drive at, but the conclusion you draw is incorrect. There are other issues involved with refresh rates. The first, as you correctly state, is the amount of information conveyed, which is usually expressed as frames. I worked as projectionist and built theatre projection booths. Every 35 mm projector had either a two bladed or three bladed shutter, which meant that each frame was shown either two or three times. The purpose was to increase the flicker rate, as you sometimes see when someone wants to indicate an old silent black and white film, to one that was less jarring. The decay/refresh rate of the image is an important factor.

That was flicker rate. Frame rate how fast new frames of information are presented. When Doug Trumbell designed Showscan, he increased the frame rate to an almost insane speed for physical film to create a more realistic reproduction of scenes. It was stunning. Unfortunately, the exhibitors didn't want to invest, and he had to couple it with a motion simulator to sell tickets for a virtual roller coaster ride.

Another issue that I'm not as familiar with is that apparently some processors can interpolate to create intermediate frames by examining the movement between two frames and then estimating where the moving object would be and synthesizing that frame. I haven't kept up with what is being done there, so would simply suggest that it needs examination in choosing a product.
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Old 11-06-2016, 11:55 AM
 
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All LEDS are junk. Banding, motion blur and flash lighting. Try to find a used Plasma or take a chance with LG on a OLED.
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:53 PM
 
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We've had a Samsung LED for about 8 years. We see none of the problems you mention. Perhaps you bought a crappy LED and are extending your problems to all others?
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:48 PM
 
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Banding is a function of the compression algorithm. Unavoidable in streamed content, and not normally a LED screen problem.

You can get a similar effect by highly-compressing a jpeg image or using a 6 bit monitor.
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Old 11-08-2016, 11:46 AM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
3,991 posts, read 2,627,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
We've had a Samsung LED for about 8 years. We see none of the problems you mention. Perhaps you bought a crappy LED and are extending your problems to all others?
I would agree on this. I would guess a large percentage of LCD TV's are LED. I haven't heard those complaints before. In any case, LED is only the light source.

The motion blur is directly tied to the refresh rate.

If anything Plasma is junk (now) compared to new sets.

FPS is NOT the same as refresh rate. FPS is "frames per second" and is directly tied to how something is filmed. Cinema releases are typically 24fps but most TV is 30fps. The refresh rate is how many times per second the screen gets refreshed. The more times per second your screen gets refreshed, the less "motion blur" you will see.

I have a 120hz TV and have never used that setting, IMO it is more useful for sports. I prefer 60hz and the look of that is more natural. The 120hz makes it look "fake". You will see that when you try it. By fake I mean, it actually looks like an animation more than real file. It's called the "soap opera effect" and that is what I thought of it before I actually read about it.

HDTV Refresh Rates Explained: 60Hz, 120Hz, and Beyond | PCMag.com

What is the 'Soap Opera Effect'?
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Old 11-08-2016, 12:11 PM
 
28,648 posts, read 40,627,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
We've had a Samsung LED for about 8 years. We see none of the problems you mention. Perhaps you bought a crappy LED and are extending your problems to all others?
And I have to return and fess up. I misread a post (getting old sucks) and misremembered what we have. Ours is not an LED, it's an LCD.

My apologies.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:28 PM
 
918 posts, read 698,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
And I have to return and fess up. I misread a post (getting old sucks) and misremembered what we have. Ours is not an LED, it's an LCD.

My apologies.
A lot of the problems didn't pop up until they started using LEDs in LCDs. LEDs make them brighter and offer other improvements but they do come with other issues because of the way the LEDs are configured.

Plasma was considered the videophile's choice but the market didn't agree so they are no more. OLED is considered the successor to Plasma, with none of Plasma's problems, but they are prohibitively expensive for most.
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