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Old 11-23-2016, 06:52 PM
 
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REFERENCE
54–72 MHz TV channels #2-#3, and #4
76–88 MHz TV channels #5 and #6
87.5–108 MHz: FM radio broadcasting

I would swear that FM radio signals travel further than TV signals even if the broadcast tower is the same.

I seem to hear FM radio from New York City, but I can't get TV signals. I am 73.4 miles from Empire State Building. I think all the broadcast signals are on the ESB (or maybe they have been moved to WTC).

Perhaps I am kidding myself and the radio stations have intermediate translators.

VHF television and FM radio are almost the same frequencies.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Sarasota FL
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You might be able to receive a video signal if you had a large antenna and it was mounted high, like maybe 30-35 feet and there are no hills/mountains between your antenna and NYC.
Even though the Empire State building and the WTC buildings are over 1000 feet, you still need an elevated antenna because of the curvature of the earth. When standing on a beach and looking out over the water of the Atlantic Ocean or in my case, The Gulf of Mexico, the furthest your eyes are seeing [on water surface] is about 15 miles.
With the old analog, with your current antenna, you might be able to receive some video/audio with a lot of noise but with digital, it's yes or no.
I have an antenna mounted in the space above my garage and transmission tower is 39 miles north with flat terrain. No problem receiving signals and because of 'signal bounce', I also receive signals 61 miles from a south east tower.
What I find amazing is that I also have DISH and a satellite 22,300 miles in space can send hundreds of video and audio digital signals to a small dish to my TV.

Last edited by d4g4m; 11-23-2016 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:09 PM
 
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Most NYC stations transmit on UHF which does have a shorter range than VHF, but is also less susceptible to interference than VHF is.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Think of the density of information difference between audio and video. Audio is going to be decodable over longer distance that video. I suspect the problem will get worse as video definition gets greater, but I haven't checked into how that may be addressed technically.
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Old 11-24-2016, 06:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
You might be able to receive a video signal if you had a large antenna and it was mounted high, like maybe 30-35 feet and there are no hills/mountains between your antenna and NYC.
Basically I am at 350' elevation, the antenna farm in northern Philadelphia highest elevation is 445' and Manhattan's highest elevation is 265'. The broadcast towers in Philadelphia and the Empire State Building are not high enough to clear intermediate 900'-1000' hills.

I live near where community antenna television (CATV) began because the terrain is so awful. Community antenna television evolved into cable TV some two decades later, but originally it was just a way to receive television

So 30-35 foot antennas are a couple of hundred feet to short for TV where I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Think of the density of information difference between audio and video. Audio is going to be decodable over longer distance that video. I suspect the problem will get worse as video definition gets greater, but I haven't checked into how that may be addressed technically.
I suspected that may be the answer, but I wasn't sure.

I know they build some translators for television to get coverage around mountains.

If I put my zip in to a television station locator, it lists ranges and levels to the translator, not just to the main television station.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dfaf4325157161

For example, in the above example I get w07dc-d as 6.2 miles away. That is just a translator for WNEP-TV which is 43.7 miles away

If I put my zip code in a radio locator website, it lists the ranges to NYC stations as over 80 miles
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/loc...ate=pa&x=0&y=0

I didn't know if they had similar translators for FM radio, but they are too numerous too list.

Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-24-2016 at 06:41 PM..
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Reliable signals are going to be those around -50db or better. -90db = dreaming.

If there are just a few stations you like, and you don't care about delay, such as for movies, you might use a dvr located in NYC and then swap and sneakernet the drives from it to your home periodically. I won't mention setting up a VPN or private streaming or anything that might get you in trouble. (cough, cough)
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:32 PM
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Location: Ohio
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Quote:
I would swear that FM radio signals travel further than TV signals even if the broadcast tower is the same.
Your observation is correct and here's why.

FM radio is an analog signal. TV is a digital signal. As you get farther from an analog transmitter, you might get noise added to the signal, but it's still listenable at a longer distance. (Think of static coming in over top of a distant radio station. You can still hear the station, but as the distance increases, so does the static, until it reaches a point you can't hear the station anymore.)

With digital signals, there is no static. There is only signal loss. The picture or the audio is crystal clear when you're receiving it full strength. But as you get farther from the transmitter, until it reaches the point that instead of getting static in the audio or noise on the picture, the signal just disappears from the receiver. (Poof, it's gone!) That distance is shorter than the distance at which you'd receive a noisy TV picture from an analog transmitter at the same location.
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Old 11-24-2016, 08:51 PM
 
10,169 posts, read 10,499,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Reliable signals are going to be those around -50db or better. -90db = dreaming.

If there are just a few stations you like, and you don't care about delay, such as for movies, you might use a dvr located in NYC and then swap and sneakernet the drives from it to your home periodically. I won't mention setting up a VPN or private streaming or anything that might get you in trouble. (cough, cough)
My parents are paying ~ $100 a month for television, Tivo DVR, and Starz and Showtime, and about $63 for 50 Mbps internet and telephone. It's not a bad price, but the cable company has just been sold and I expect the price to go up.

They could save money by switching to SlingTV or possibly the upcoming "DirectTV Now" which is going to be announced on Monday (28 Nov 2016). But CBS/ABC/NBC are not on these IPTV offerings, and my father loves football. Many people can simply switch to antenna to watch broadcast, but we only get local news and PBS on the antenna.

For someone with a computer, a VPN isn't really necessary as ABC/CBS/NBC are broadcast on USTVNow. But my parents have no tolerance for technical things. My father has just barely forgiven the cable company for going digital 7 years ago, as he can no longer plug the cable directly into the TV and bypass a set top box.
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