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Old 07-11-2017, 03:09 AM
 
40,284 posts, read 41,836,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Under the "fair use" rule as long as I am not making money or making public showings, it is permitted to keep DVR recordings for personal viewings.
What I'm citing is the ruling in the "betamax" case by the Supreme Court. In that case they were deciding whether video recorders were legal. What you will find in that decision is that they agreed the consumer can "Time Shift" material by recording to view it later. You will not find anything in that decision about building a library of material to keep forever.

The thing to understand about copyrighted material is what you can and cannot do with it is entirely dependent on the license with some minor exceptions where there is court decisions or legislation. Those exceptions include Time Shifting, the Audio Home Recording ACT that allows you make personal copies of audio and another exemption that allows backups of software. There may be others but these are the big specific exemptions that have been carved out of copyright law.

As far as ripping DVD's or Blu Ray, firstly there is no exemption for video other time shifting. This also has an added layer of issues because of the DMCA which makes it illegal to break copy protection systems. Whether or not you can legally posses a copy of the material becomes irrelevant because you need to break the copy protection to obtain it. That is why a program like DVDFab is hosted on overseas servers, it breaks encryption/copy protections and it's technically illegal for you or anyone else in the US to posses that software.

That said no one has ever been sued for recording a library of material off the TV or making personal copies of DVD's/Blu Ray's they have purchased. That will likely never happen because it's something the major producers of this material will be very leery about pushing in court because it could be very bad outcome for them. They don't want another Betamax decision or Home Recoding Act type legislation emerging because that will bring it into the open.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,896 posts, read 4,421,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
Makes perfect sense. Good luck. A good resource for you, maybe mentioned already, is https://www.avforums.com/forums/

I've been visiting them for about 15 years, and can attest that they're perfectly legit, and will steer you to good software.
That's an excellent site! I've been visiting them as well. Got a lot of info from them on outdoor antenna equipment. I'm all about the free OTA TV.

I actually did get another Blu-ray movie to rip. In fact, it took less time to rip than the other DVD movies I was testing with. I tested the stream last night to my Roku through Plex, and it streamed well, but I didn't have it streaming at the highest quality. Right now, my computer that the Plex server is on is wireless, and I want to get it hardwired in so that I can stream at the highest quality. Still, it wasn't a bad picture and I never had any buffer issues.

One more thing about Plex. Upgrading to the Plex Pass will give you the ability to integrate live TV, DVR for that live TV, sync your media offline to mobile devices, and some other little perks. It's about $40/year. I might consider upgrading once I have my library fully in place.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:17 AM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
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i'm at work now so i'll fact-check later.
from memory i remember there was a dvd-john that moved to switzerland because according to the patriot act it is a terrorist offense to break dvd copy-protection.

i think since then, the dmca allowed exception for breaking copy-protection as long as you dont distribute.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Under the "fair use" rule as long as I am not making money or making public showings, it is permitted to keep DVR recordings for personal viewings. Even companies like Comcast tell their customers they can keep DVR recordings for as long as they want.
I know copyright law fairly well. It has nothing to do with "making money or making public showings". It is about reproducing a creative work, i.e. copying the work. Yes, there is a "fair use" exception that allows limited copying for personal use, but in the case of encrypted media such as DVD, BlueRay, streaming media and digital broadcasts, you have the Digital Millennium Copyrignt Act to deal with.

DVR are consistent with the law because makers essentially license a package of rights, and they don't enable making further digital copies.

Regarding DVR, you might recall that TIVO, the pioneer of the technology, had years of battles over the legality of what they were (are) doing.
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,896 posts, read 4,421,807 times
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I guess what I'm doing could technically be considered illegal. OK. Fine. Cuff me Roscoe P. Coletrain. I'm not ripping the movies with the intent to distribute or resale. I'm simply ripping them for easier access within my own private network. I'm keeping the physical medium. If I don't want the movie anymore, I'll delete the digital copy and sell the physical one (which is legal.) I'm not even tempted to rip movies I may rent from Redbox (although I could see the potential temptation that one might have to do that.) I'm not into any of that stuff. It's simply for my own private use.
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:52 AM
 
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DCMA has been around for quite some time. I don't recall any individual being prosecuted for breach of that law.

With regard to copyright breaches, you see something similar - no one being prosecuted who did not post the ripped content publicly.

Again, though, distribution or resale has nothing to do with the law. It has everything to do with enforcement of the law - easy detection and readily estimated damages. This is important because most copyright infringement actions are brought in civil court, not criminal (don't know if criminal penalties are even within the law), for money damages and injunctive relief.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
5,896 posts, read 4,421,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
DCMA has been around for quite some time. I don't recall any individual being prosecuted for breach of that law.

With regard to copyright breaches, you see something similar - no one being prosecuted who did not post the ripped content publicly.

Again, though, distribution or resale has nothing to do with the law. It has everything to do with enforcement of the law - easy detection and readily estimated damages. This is important because most copyright infringement actions are brought in civil court, not criminal (don't know if criminal penalties are even within the law), for money damages and injunctive relief.

That's the thing that I think has to be difficult to determine in some of these cases - estimated damages. What damages would I have committed by making a ripped copy of a dvd I bought as a backup? A digital copy that is not making outside of my house/network? I can still play the original DVD. I'm not lending the DVD out to anybody (which I read is perfectly fine to do), all I'm doing is changing the vehicle in which I use to view the material I purchased a license for. In the end, I think the motion picture association has to realize that the easier you make it on folks to access their material, the more likely you're going to have repeat customers. I like having the physical medium. I'm the same way with music. I like having a digital copy of music I can listen to in the car, or on my iPod, but I still like having the physical CD. I like having the CD artwork, linear notes, and just having the music on disc.

Same with the movies for me. I still want the physical disc, but I also want to have the option of being able to have a digital copy that I can stream out to my TV or my iPad. I also happen to have a two year old who likes to grab the DVD packages and tear them up, so being able to watch this stuff while protecting the Blu-ray or DVD is worth it to me to have a digital copy sitting somewhere on my private network.
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:16 AM
 
40,284 posts, read 41,836,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsguy37 View Post
That's the thing that I think has to be difficult to determine in some of these cases - estimated damages. What damages would I have committed by making a ripped copy of a dvd I bought as a backup?
It's purely hypothetical question. No one has ever been sued for ripping a DVD and it's unlikely anyone ever will be. That is a case the media companies would certainly rather not see go to court because it could lead to a landmark decision not in their favor.

Quote:
I'm the same way with music. I like having a digital copy of music I can listen to in the car, or on my iPod, but I still like having the physical CD. I like having the CD artwork, linear notes, and just having the music on disc.
As long as it's for personal use and you destroy any copies if you sell the disc you are perfectly within your rights to do this with audio. See the Audio Home Recording Act. This act and the DMCA is what separates audio from video. Audio with copy protections would fall under the DMCA, CD has none.
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