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View Poll Results: For Terrestrial/Rooftop TV Antenna Users: Which form of interference could you tolerate most?
1. Pixellation and frequent dropouts 1 10.00%
2. Moderate 'snow', but can still see picture and hear the sound ok 9 90.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-25-2019, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
2,366 posts, read 963,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Both terms are used for artifacts where they are actually part
of the stream. If there is not enough bitrate allocated you get
macroblocking. In a sense it's missing data but it was replaced
with the next best thing, the video and audio stream is complete.
This would actually be similar compariosn to "snow" in that you have
complete audio and the video is still watchable to some degree.
This however is not a reception issue but a source issue.

The lights are moving fast and there is not enough bitrate to reproduce
their movement. The people are moving slow so you don't see it there.


Hey peregrine, here comes those pictures again, LOL






As far as the OTA digital broadcast these have tremendous amount
of bitrate available and this should never occur. It's should be near if
not the highest quality HD you can get, one thing to note is some of
the secondary channels are broadcast in SD. You may see similar
issues on cable or video streaming services because they do not utilize
anywhere near the bitrate on OTA. In particular with rapidly changing
content like flashing lights for example.



What he is referring to (I think) is complete loss of the video/audio
stream, I don't know if the same term is used. They are similar issues
but not quite the same.
"complete loss" - Correct!

Take an analog and a digital TV signal of similar relative strength, and slowly reduce them.

The analog picture will slowly fill with snow and start to flicker as it weakens, but the sound wil be audible far after the picture snows up.

The digital picture will start to have squares randomly appearing, still sound, then it quickly macros and blacks out - along with the audio.

I prefer - and miss - the former of those two reception scenarios. I know analog isn't coming back anytime soon, but I miss it and would prefer its stages of signal loss over digital's any day, "HD" image be DAMNED.

My mind can fill in between 480 lines. As long as the set has been adjusted to something more accurate than those hideous glaring factory settings, I could care less about how few or many lines of resolution the thing can pass.

Last edited by TheGrandK-Man; 09-25-2019 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:46 PM
 
40,286 posts, read 41,836,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
I know analog isn't coming back anytime soon,

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. I already mentioned the benefit of making space for other services. Analog takes up much more space than digital. You can have 3 or 4 channels using same bandwidth and each channel may have 3 or 4 separate sub channels. As compression and the broadcasting technology improves they will be able to squeeze even more channels into that space.



The infrastructure is "free" to get from point A to point B with anything wireless including TV broadcasts and cell service. The problem is it's limited, you can't build more of it.



The cable companies face the same issue, they can only transmit so much information but they can build more infrastructure to accommodate that. This is why OTA is better quality than cable, they compress the video stream a lot to save on bandwidth.




Quote:
My mind can fill in between 480 lines. As long as the set has been adjusted to something more accurate than those hideous glaring factory settings, I could care less about how few or many lines of resolution the thing can pass.

Had they wanted to narrow the bandwidth even further they could of limited each channel to SD broadcast. HD is not the only reason behind this switch.
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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I've hear it all now... I was to go back to analog because I prefer the way... the channels fade?!?!?
Shoot me.
"Old" analog TV is almost unwatchable to me on a modern TV.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:40 PM
 
28,638 posts, read 40,617,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
The whole jist of this thread is: Would you take back analog TV's snow on weaker channels over digital's drop-outs and muted sound? I cannot believe how many older folks like yourself are embracing newer technologies that I disdain! You kind of sounded like a millennial in post #8.


I guess I am more conservative - tech-wise that is - as a 40-something than I give myself credit for! I just feel that, if something ain't broke, why re-invent it?
Interesting that it took until post #13 to actually ask the question that was supposed to be asked in the OP. Terrestrial? Where the heck do you live?

This seems to be a nonsensical thread. I'm surprised anyone bothered to answer.
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
2,366 posts, read 963,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
Interesting that it took until post #13 to actually ask the question that was supposed to be asked in the OP. Terrestrial? Where the heck do you live?

This seems to be a nonsensical thread. I'm surprised anyone bothered to answer.

Metro NY area. Guess the cable and satcos did a good job convincing the public that terrestrial - point a to point b broadcasting on Earth's surface was ending entirely in 2009! No wonder Trump got in the WH!
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:37 PM
 
1,096 posts, read 504,869 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra View Post
Again, the poll is meaningless. There is no "snow" since all broadcast TV in the US is digital.
Sorry to say there are a few analog channels in locations that won't support digital signals. The FCC let those folk's keep their old TV's with analog. All the analog channels are real low power local type services.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:50 AM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
3,988 posts, read 2,623,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired in Illinois View Post
Sorry to say there are a few analog channels in locations that won't support digital signals. The FCC let those folk's keep their old TV's with analog. All the analog channels are real low power local type services.
Still pointless for 99% of the country isn't it? I'm sure other countries still do Analog. NTSC technology is from 1954!

And you are sorry, why exactly?

According to this, 100% of the stations will have to convert by 2021.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita..._United_States
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
2,366 posts, read 963,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra View Post
NTSC technology is from 1954!
What's that supposed to mean?
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
11,844 posts, read 13,973,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
Metro NY area. Guess the cable and satcos did a good job convincing the public that terrestrial - point a to point b broadcasting on Earth's surface was ending entirely in 2009! No wonder Trump got in the WH!
Whoosh.
You completely missed his point. HD signals are also TERRESTRIAL if your definition of TERRESTRIAL is point a to point b. That word makes no sense in this context.

I don't think there's a soul alive who thinks OTA... errr... TERRESTRIAL TV went away in 2009....
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:51 PM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
3,988 posts, read 2,623,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
What's that supposed to mean?
Same system you seem to want back, has/had been in existence for 65 years. That's what it means. It was long overdue for an improvement. All of 30fps and 525 lines in analog brilliance. NOT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC
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