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Like the illegal alien problem, the gun problem is too big to ever fix. The illegals are NOT going back home and there are far too many guns to ever control them. We know that drunk drivers, impaired drivers, kill tens of thousands and maim many more than that annually but we will never control the impairment factor. NEVER! Some problems are unresolvable no matter what good intentions are at play. Look at what has been thrown at the problem of birth control: morning after pill, condoms, "education", birth control pills and yet abortions continue at the same rates. We KNOW that obesity is massively unhealthy and hugely expensive and yet our eating habits don't change. Pick your favorite issue/problem and it will be the same circumstance. Too big to fix.
^ I disagree. I think that Chris Rock's $5,000 bullet joke/idea is a actually a great solution. If bullets were insanely expensive, it'd be so much harder for all the senseless gun violence of today (muggings, gang activity, troubled teens, psychotic adults, etc) to occur. Plus, the people who just like to collect guns would still have them.
Unless you live in a really horrendous area, it's not likely that someone is going to break in your house. So, having just a few bullets shouldn't be a problem. They'd be like a fire extinguisher - an expensive investment that you probably won't need, but is there to save your life should such an occasion arise.
Anyway, has it been confirmed that the kids took his parents gun? If so, the parents need to be charged with criminal negligence.
If it turns out the kid was bullied that brings up a question:
Why is it that kids are not talking to their parents about such things? Used to be you told dad that some other kid was bullying you and he gave you some pointers on how to handle it. Back then, sometimes it involved a 2x4 but the point is that when we hear stories like this and the kid was bullied, the parents almost always are unaware of the fact. Why?
The problem with guns in school is a symptom of failed parenting. While we look for answers in gun control and other things, no one dares question the parenting or lack thereof.
Where is the national outcry for better parenting? I haven't heard or seen any. Maybe it is because so many people thinks it takes a village to raise their children and that parents are bystanders in the whole affair.
It does not take a village to raise children, it takes good parents. It has little to do with money because you can parent well and have few financial resources. The problem today is that people have been incentivized to believe that money is the answer to everything and if not, some form of control over something is.
Gun control can't solve a thing. Money can't solve it either. Parenting can solve many social ills. If you leave Facebook to raise your kids because that is part of some virtual village, then you as a parent are a failure.
Why aren't the current laws enforced? Is creating new laws going to reinforce those existing? That question could be asked every decade for the past 80 years. It's a people problem and a liberal one at this point. The 'I'm OK, You're OK' feel good approach to mentally deficient people has gone on for too long. Apparently, you're not OK and neither is the person in question - that psychological experiment was a farce and we see the backlash as a large faction of society still subscribes to it.
Psychiatrists/psychologists can't solve the epidemic of insanity sweeping the globe. There aren't enough of either and they aren't educated/equipped to handle the sheer numbers.
The same reason immigration laws are not enforced; it is an advantage to certain parties (be it the gov or whoever) to not enforce laws, thus creating issues that will assist the parties in forwarding an agenda.
thats not research friend, its the party line of the (corrupt) mexican government.
So the the University of San Diego and the research center in Brazil are both in bed with the Mexican government? Why? Because the Mexican government has neither donated endowment nor help those institutes in any way? Uh-eh.
Just own up to it. Why the need to ignore facts? Just say, "Yeah guns are smuggled into Mexico, but I don't really care." That's pretty much all you need to say.
The same reason immigration laws are not enforced; it is an advantage to certain parties (be it the gov or whoever) to not enforce laws, thus creating issues that will assist the parties in forwarding an agenda.
I have to partly agree with this one.
Partly because 2A is enumerated in the Constitution whereas immigration laws are not.
Congress has the power to set said laws but has never truly addressed it. The times have change in just 50 years and it is like ants swarming over the border. That needs to be addressed.
Bearing arms is a natural right and shall not be infringed.
Do you know what the gun laws are in Vermont? Very liberal/easy/lax. Yet, relatively low gun violence. So I disagree with your notion above. Background checks are a step but not the first or the best. Gun violence is high in the US, I definitely agree. It is an indicator our society is sick and getting sicker. Passing even more gun laws that will not be enforced is not the solution. The hard truth is overall mental health needs to be improved in the US. This is hard to both define and implement. A "healthy" society needs relatively few laws and expends less resources on enforcement. The US is not healthy. (prison population size for example!)
Vermont's overall number is low because it has very low population and low density. It's firearm death per household is actually right in line with the nation and higher than CA, which has stricter gun laws.
No tight borders are tough. I agree with you about the war on drugs being a joke.
And again you help make my point. There's all kinds of laws against drugs but the drugs still come so long as there is demand. Same way with guns. MX = high demand and overwhelmed law enforcement. CA = moderate demand (I know many Canucks who wish gun laws weren't so restrictive) but law enforcement is strong and no elite Canadian military personnel have gone rogue into drug cartels. And CA is a high income/education/social safety net nation.
So in the absence of secure borders other factors come into play. Please see my further comments contrasting CA vs MX below.
Drugs and guns are freely flowing across the border because there is no filter on either side. Drugs are easy to get in MX and guns are easy to get in USA so they make their way across the border. The absolute wrong takeaway is to just throw your hands up and accept it. The right takeaway is to realize that tighter control IS going to make a big difference because there will not be as many drugs/guns available to move across the border.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayway
So why is Colombia so violent? Geez the government better send nice letters asking the drug cartel to turn in their guns or apply for permits.
Woohoo gun laws in Afghanistan now, mission accomplished.
Is there a point to this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayway
Again, you make my point. Thank you ! Guns can get into Canada, yet it is not a declining narcostate like Mexico. Canada is a "healthier" society than the US and even more so than MX. Both of our neighbors have tight gun laws yet one is a disaster and the other is not.
So what? Guns are widely available in the USA and we are not a declining narcotic state like Mexico. You seem to think gun laws are the be all/end all of all discussion. Gee, social economics, prosperity, and government stability doesn't play a part, you don't think? Canada is what they are today DESPITE our lax gun laws not because of it; mainly because Canada has other things going for them that Mexico doesn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayway
Again, have strict laws on the books is trivially easy compared to having the cohesive, healthy society where these laws can realistically be enforced. That is truly the hard task, that is the challenge facing the US and I am sorry to say we are in dire straits...
We are in dire straits and championing the status quo is not going to solve anything.
.
So the the University of San Diego and the research center in Brazil are both in bed with the Mexican government? Why? Because the Mexican government has neither donated endowment nor help those institutes in any way? Uh-eh.
Just own up to it. Why the need to ignore facts? Just say, "Yeah guns are smuggled into Mexico, but I don't really care." That's pretty much all you need to say.
.
Lol.. the Mexican government doesn't care, why should I?
They literally have *no* customs inspectors at the border station into Algodones where I get my dental work done. No one asks you where you're going, what your citizenship is, or if you have anything to declare - there's nobody there.
Now check this out: (this is an old story, but rest assured, it's still happening)...
" According to the Mexican attorney general's office, there have been 101 grenade attacks against government buildings in the past 3 1/2 years, information now made public for the first time. "
And ask yourself a question - If you're a "Drug Lord" with suitcases of dollars at your disposal, do you want a semi-automatic weapon, or a full-auto weapon?
Because those amazing shootouts on the streets in Mexico are often done with full-auto weapons.. and the guns did not originate at "gun shows".
"For several years now, Mexican officials have been making public statements that more than 90 percent of the arms used by criminals in Mexico come from the United States. That number was echoed last month in a report by the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico
According to the report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican officials in 2008. Out of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them, (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.
This means that the 87 percent figure comes from the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by the Mexicans or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. The 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing.
In a response to the GAO report, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) wrote a letter to the GAO (published as an appendix to the report) calling the GAO's use of the 87 percent statistic "misleading." The DHS further noted, "Numerous problems with the data collection and sample population render this assertion as unreliable."
"Furthermore, it is not prudent to rely exclusively on weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing as a representative sample of the overall Mexican arms market. This is because there are some classes of weapons, such as RPG-7s and South Korean hand grenades, which make very little sense for the Mexicans to pass to the ATF for tracing since they obviously are not from the United States. The ATF is limited in its ability to trace weapons that did not pass through the United States, though there are offices at the CIA and Defense Intelligence Agency that maintain extensive international arms-trafficking databases.
Mexican authorities are also unlikely to ask the ATF to trace weapons that can be tracked through the Mexican government's own databases such as the one maintained by the Mexican Defense Department's Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM), which is the only outlet through which Mexican citizens can legally buy guns. If they can trace a gun through UCAM there is simply no need to submit it to ATF. "
Considering the fact that Mexico has a completely open border to the US, it isn't surprising that 12% of the guns they seize come from here.. The only surprise is that the figure isn't higher.. That said, blaming the US for a gun problem in Mexico is pretty darn stupid if mexico makes no effort at all to keep guns out. Well, other than that sternly worded sign..
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Why aren't the current laws enforced? Is creating new laws going to reinforce those existing? That question could be asked every decade for the past 80 years. It's a people problem and a liberal one at this point. The 'I'm OK, You're OK' feel good approach to mentally deficient people has gone on for too long. Apparently, you're not OK and neither is the person in question - that psychological experiment was a farce and we see the backlash as a large faction of society still subscribes to it.
Guns can get into Canada, yet it is not a declining narcostate like Mexico. Canada is a "healthier" society than the US and even more so than MX. Both of our neighbors have tight gun laws yet one is a disaster and the other is not.
