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Old 12-11-2013, 06:45 PM
 
370 posts, read 397,287 times
Reputation: 840

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Some people act and think no one else knows how to make a burger. Sorry, it isn't all that hard. If you think it is hard, then there are other issues needing attention.
Working in fast food does not equal standing over a BBQ grill while having a few friends over.

I've done some time in fast food. The job is not some kind of super easy paradise that a lot of people seem to make it out to be. The hours are inconsistent and all over the place, it's often stressful and fast paced, there are corporate performance metrics to meet, the managers suck, the customers suck, the people you work with generally kind of suck, you have hundreds of menu items to learn and remember, it's dirty, you're on your feet all the time, and you come home smelling like burger grease. Even if the wage for it was increased to 10 or 12 or 15 bucks an hour, people still aren't going to clamor to do that job.

Heck, I make just a bit more than that, and there's no way I'd leave my cushy office position with consistent hours, general cleanliness, comfortable chair, and less public related B.S. to go flip burgers.

Will they get $15.00 an hour? Probably not. But by demanding $15.00 do they have a chance of getting $11 or $12 with passably decent health and dental insurance. That should be fair.

Personally, I'd be for increasing min wage to $12.25 an hour in one dollar an hour increments over the next 5 years, then tying to inflation from then on. That seems to be a reasonable level to me, and it's not like that money isn't going to go right back into the economy. Low-wage workers have a lot of pent up demand, those kind of raises will allow them to buy cars/furniture/restaurant meals/dental and vision work. I think we'd actually see a reasonable boost in the overall health of the economy.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:18 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,899,792 times
Reputation: 11420
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmet View Post
Working in fast food does not equal standing over a BBQ grill while having a few friends over.

I've done some time in fast food. The job is not some kind of super easy paradise that a lot of people seem to make it out to be. The hours are inconsistent and all over the place, it's often stressful and fast paced, there are corporate performance metrics to meet, the managers suck, the customers suck, the people you work with generally kind of suck, you have hundreds of menu items to learn and remember, it's dirty, you're on your feet all the time, and you come home smelling like burger grease. Even if the wage for it was increased to 10 or 12 or 15 bucks an hour, people still aren't going to clamor to do that job.

Heck, I make just a bit more than that, and there's no way I'd leave my cushy office position with consistent hours, general cleanliness, comfortable chair, and less public related B.S. to go flip burgers.

Will they get $15.00 an hour? Probably not. But by demanding $15.00 do they have a chance of getting $11 or $12 with passably decent health and dental insurance. That should be fair.

Personally, I'd be for increasing min wage to $12.25 an hour in one dollar an hour increments over the next 5 years, then tying to inflation from then on. That seems to be a reasonable level to me, and it's not like that money isn't going to go right back into the economy. Low-wage workers have a lot of pent up demand, those kind of raises will allow them to buy cars/furniture/restaurant meals/dental and vision work. I think we'd actually see a reasonable boost in the overall health of the economy.
Life isn't fair.

Flipping burgers is a choice or a step to better things. That is the whole point here. If one wants to flip burgers as a career, fine with me, just don't expect better pay because it is something you want to do.

If you do it as a stepping stone to better, then you shouldn't be doing that job long enough to complain about it.

There are always those who will say something to cast blame or reason onto some other circumstance or someone else.

The bottom line is that flipping burgers is a choice. If you want more money, do something else and that might mean doing something yourself to improve your own situation.

Make yourself more valuable and people will pay for that value. Burger flippers can be replaced with automation. It is already in the works.

Then what? Complain about not having a job?
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:42 PM
 
370 posts, read 397,287 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Life isn't fair.

Flipping burgers is a choice or a step to better things. That is the whole point here. If one wants to flip burgers as a career, fine with me, just don't expect better pay because it is something you want to do.

If you do it as a stepping stone to better, then you shouldn't be doing that job long enough to complain about it.

There are always those who will say something to cast blame or reason onto some other circumstance or someone else.

The bottom line is that flipping burgers is a choice. If you want more money, do something else and that might mean doing something yourself to improve your own situation.

Make yourself more valuable and people will pay for that value. Burger flippers can be replaced with automation. It is already in the works.

Then what? Complain about not having a job?
.

Flipping burgers isn't necessarily a choice for everyone. Lord knows I didn't WANT to work for McDonald's as a teenager, but they were hiring, so I took the job. Lots of people do jobs they don't want to do just to survive...there are VERY few people who want to be convenience store clerks, burger flippers, cashiers, janitors, etc.

But these are jobs that the free market has decreed must be done. And the people who do them for 40 hours a week (whether as one 40 hour job, two 20 hour jobs, whatever) deserve to make a wage that, at the VERY least, allows them to have food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, transportation, and, yes, even a bit of entertainment. This does not mean lobsters and Lexuses for everybody, but it does mean that wages should be high enough that you might be able to, say, buy a pair of glasses without having to live on ramen for months on end.

Things will automate over time anyway...at some point, even if we never move minimum wage, it's going to be cheaper to simply completely automate the making of a burger or the ringing up of groceries. At that point, we as a society will need to start having discussions about things like reducing the length of a standard full time workweek (in 1962, they thought it'd be 28 hours a week by now), or providing a guaranteed minimum income. We're still pretty far from that point, and will still be almost as far from that point even with a few dollar an hour minimum wage increase.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:54 PM
 
3,965 posts, read 3,276,599 times
Reputation: 11400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
They will be replaced with automation. End of story. Working at a fast food eatery ISN'T designed to be the 40 hour job to support your basic living needs. It was designed as part time work for people entering a work force or going to school or supplementing income. All of a sudden it means a career and a demand for $15?

Eliminate them with automation. It is possible. Otherwise, they have a choice don't they? They can work elsewhere doing something else. Since when is their choice the responsibility of anyone else but them?

Out of touch is making others deal with your personal choice. No one gets drafted to work in the fast food industry and everyone who does can work hard, gain education and experience and get a better job in that very industry making more money.
Well, we all know that machines don't spend much money, nor are they by any stretch of the imagination going to be a long term sustainable economic component in a replacement construct meant to displace human labor. During the rise of the machine age this wasn't much of a problem, but anyone who is even remotely aware can see the beginnings of consequence delayed. Of course no one gets "drafted" to do anything relative to employment so I'm baffled as to the point of that reference. I see what you are driving at though, in your thinking people are simply out there making choices, good or bad, as though all life happens in a vacuum, and there would be no other impinging reality to take into account. It doesn't hold water but then again, problem solving from a biased view rarely does.

A common experience known all too well by a large portion of the American workforce, is the fact that "choice" seldom if ever enters into the employment picture when seeking work, yeah, some are where they find themselves by choice but their numbers are certainly dwindling. The majority of our college grads find jobs that have little or no relevance to their "chosen" field of study, any degree will do fine because the job world is developing more refined job functions and job definitions than most degrees cover in general. So, College grads are finding the door to work closed just as often as those who have no degree, and when that door does open, it often is offering a substandard compensation, yes, even those who make "good choices" find out that we don't live in a power vacuum.

I guess it's worth mentioning at this point that most work functions have little connection to any "design" component that allows for an analysis of a humans needs relative to compensation. To say that work in a fast food restaurant wasn't "designed" to support a person is simply BS, the truth of low wage jobs is that the wage level is more relative to a policy of maximization of profit than any concern for a human. If there's any design in all of that it would be to impoverish a portion of the nations workforce by....Design..

Throwing out terms such as choice and responsibility in a way that concludes their relationship as a given doesn't hold up to scrutiny very well. It's a great ploy to make your contention sound logical but most people know that living in a democracy isn't the same as living in a corpora-tocracy, the latter assumes that the unfettered right to do business is somehow holy and thus the lives and well being of humans should be subjugated to that superior corporate status. We as citizens of a democracy can and should force corporations wanting to conduct business here in OUR country to compensate it's workforce at a level of human sustainability or capitulate to those who can/will.

Last but hardly least, calling a 15.00 dollar an hour job a "career" is beyond laughable, it simply shows the careless use of words and how easy it has become to present flawed thought with those words. Many of our countrymen have forgotten that this is a land OF THE PEOPLE and NOT of corporations, many of corporate America's henchmen have inculcated that kind of pretzel logic through the use of their favorite media mouthpieces who would love to make all of us believe in their right to sovereignty and not ours.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,352 posts, read 7,536,589 times
Reputation: 15960
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinVolk View Post
Not only should Min Wage be bumped to 15$ an hour,the government needs to crack down on ANY COMPANY that tries skirting around it by laying off or firing workers because of it. You want to save money fire some idiot making 100k a year instead of some poor sob barely scraping by on crap wages.
And just how do you propose to determine and prosecute these supposed offenses?

Do you have two cousins named "EinReich" and "EinFuhrer"???
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
2,311 posts, read 3,615,075 times
Reputation: 5317
Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
McDonalds charges $6 for 10 cents worth of coffee, a dirt cheap biscuit with some egg-like yellow substance in it, and a small oval tater tot (which for some reason they refer to as "hash browns") and you think their margins are "razor thin"?

That's about 50 cents in food costs, if that. Before everyone chimes in about rent, labor, advertising, etc. that's still a massive markup. At a local independent place I go to I can get a 3-egg omelet with vegetables and cheese, a huge serving of hash browns, wheat toast and coffee for the same price. And their employees get paid a lot more (which is why they're 100x more competent, polite, fast and efficient).

Actually, McDonald's profit margin on their dirt cheap, barely edible refuse is over 20%.

McDonald's Profit Margin (Quarterly) (MCD)

This is the America our idiot citizens vote for with their money every day, one full of corporate leeches sucking the life out of everyone.

The franchise fee's that owner operators pay to Mc Donalds Corporation is extremely high.
This makes prophet margins razor thin despite what you think you see.
I find it hilarious that many people think wholesale food cost and retail charge is a reason to think that franchise owners make outrages sums of money.

The fast food franchise model dictates that the parent company is paid first in the form of monthly franchise fees before other expenses are dealt with.
If you would have also read my post you would find that it is the franchise owner, not the parent company that absorbs increases in costs like labor, cost of food, etc.
Raise the cost of labor beyond what fits in the franchise owners budget and watch the wave of layoffs of baseline employees ensue.

If current changes in the food business become permanent you will see kiosks replace baseline workers because at this level there is more value in machines than there is in human capital.
The failure rate at this level of employee in the form of absences, tardiness, and non flexibility of many due to not being able to adhere to a changing schedule will simply and efficiently be done away with with software.

Here on the eastern seaboard automated ordering at many fast food outlets has been the norm for over two years now with excellent results.
This situation falls squarely upon the shoulders of the baseline employees value and worth to a company.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:23 AM
 
6,637 posts, read 4,615,614 times
Reputation: 13351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Some people just like flipping burgers for a living. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone has to do it. If that makes them happy, who is to say they should want more? That is an elitist attitude in my book. Why should that job be considered not doing better? A job is a job. Taking pride in what one does, whatever that job is should be the main thing.
I agree. If they like flipping burgers they should do so. But, they should also be aware that they need to be happy earning (and living on) burger flipping wages. I say do what you want, but don't expect to be paid at a rate higher than your choice warrants.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:32 AM
 
Location: NY
9,072 posts, read 15,078,455 times
Reputation: 11515
Nobody "deserves" a dime in wages. Everybody "earns" wages. If where you work does not earn enough, and your employer refuses to agree to allow you to earn more... then you live in a free country and can terminate your employment. Go find an employer who allows you to earn more.

This entitlement mentality in this country really needs to go away.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,928,762 times
Reputation: 7740
What I really hate is how people try to marginalize these workers by calling them "burger flippers". It would be like calling a secretary a "phone handler" or an office executive a "pencil pusher." There's a hell of a lot more to working in fast food then just "flipping burgers" or "tossing fries." You have to perform sanitation duties, handle cash, deal with customers (many of whom just plain suck), handle stocking and inventory, etc. Of course, that would inflate the value of these people if we acknowledged all of that, right?
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:46 AM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,242,169 times
Reputation: 17208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
If you think flipping burgers is so easy, I have to ask, have you ever done it? I don't think it shows a lack of ambition. Many people do that job while writing books, acting in the theater, doing art work or doing other jobs that pay little or next to nothing but are very creative.

There are lots of white collar jobs that don't pay more that $15.00 an hour. Are they any better than flipping burgers? I don't think so. Ambition doesn't always equal a big paycheck. The idea that a "lowly job" should equal lowly pay is baloney. It just perpetuates low paying jobs.

Some people just like flipping burgers for a living. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone has to do it. If that makes them happy, who is to say they should want more? That is an elitist attitude in my book. Why should that job be considered not doing better? A job is a job. Taking pride in what one does, whatever that job is should be the main thing.
Ahhhh that explains it! It's not easy. THAT'S why one out of five times my order comes out wrong. The same thing I've ordered since McDonalds was invented. Quarter pounder with cheese, lettuce tomato only.

And they INTERRUPT me giving the order before it gets out of my mouth. "JUST the sandwich?" Then I have to repeat myself and it still might come out wrong. Yeah, I get it. That touchscreen is SOOOOO hard.

White collar jobs that don't pay more than 15 per hour? LOL I started a dog walking/pet sitting business and my STARTING rate is $20.00 per half hour. I've done as many as 23 jobs in one day in 3 high rises. Verizon, and AT&T have sales jobs paying over 50K per week before sales commission after 2 years on the job.

If you're "happy" flipping burgers, yay. Martha Stewart started out making food in her house as a caterer. Her motto is "Learn something every day". She just started a new brand of aggregated entrepreneurs who MAKE THINGS out of their own PASSIONS and started small businesses.

FAIL TO LEARN at your own peril. Have a PASSION for fast food franchise burgers? Fine. But Martha Stewart will not sponsor you. So you'll have to start your OWN franchise.
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