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Old 12-10-2013, 08:42 AM
 
15,556 posts, read 13,555,088 times
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"The house Republicans will never allow what the Democrat controlled congress is wanting to increase wages."

"This whole minimum wage play is more politics. Democrats for the little guy who makes minimum wage."


If the Dems were really serious about raising the minimum wage, and not making it a political, anti-Repub issue, they would have raised it back in 2008-2010.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:06 AM
 
7,495 posts, read 9,771,784 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
A "living wage" is an excuse for the choices people make that limit their ability to earn a better income.

"Earn" and "living wage" are rarely if ever used together.

We've managed to convince an entire generation, through an education experiment that there is no such thing as reward for winning, one need only demonstrate an effort and that is good enough to get the trophy. These kids grew up with liberal minds hand holding them every step of the way to make sure they couldn't think for themselves, only think what they are told.
That's what the government and big business wanted.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:11 AM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,815,982 times
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Can you imagine how much it's gonna cost to order from a fast food joint when they get $15/hour? Fast food joints are popular not only because the food's ready fast, but because it's always been cheap.

$15/hour...some of my office jobs paid even less than that, some more, 15 was like the median going rate for someone with my skill and experience. Fast food workers did not go to business school to learn skills like I did, nor are they usually experienced. That's a 'starter job' for mostly teens.

Last edited by temazepam; 12-10-2013 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:25 AM
 
8,402 posts, read 20,363,710 times
Reputation: 6775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
If you think flipping burgers is so easy, I have to ask, have you ever done it? I don't think it shows a lack of ambition. Many people do that job while writing books, acting in the theater, doing art work or doing other jobs that pay little or next to nothing but are very creative.

There are lots of white collar jobs that don't pay more that $15.00 an hour. Are they any better than flipping burgers? I don't think so. Ambition doesn't always equal a big paycheck. The idea that a "lowly job" should equal lowly pay is baloney. It just perpetuates low paying jobs.

Some people just like flipping burgers for a living. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone has to do it. If that makes them happy, who is to say they should want more? That is an elitist attitude in my book. Why should that job be considered not doing better? A job is a job. Taking pride in what one does, whatever that job is should be the main thing.
I did it when I was a teenager, and my team set service records for speed and accuracy. A monkey could be trained in two weeks to handle most fast food tasks, with all due respect to those who do them well now.

If people choose to flip burgers for a living, fine. But don't expect their employers (and consumers, inevitably) to arbitrarily pay more than the job is worth.

When I can get 2-3 correct food items, all at the proper temp, prepared to look anywhere close to the pictures on the menu board, in a reasonable time frame, without feeling like I've interrupted someone's baby mama drama, maybe even with a smile and a "thank you", assuming the person in the drive thru window even speaks or looks me in the eye, THEN I'll be open to raising their wages a bit. But until they can meet just the minimum requirements of their job, they get what they get. Too many think it's supposed to be the other way around, as in "pay me better and I'll work better (meaning do the job I was hired to do)". Not me. Not as a consumer or employer.

Here's a specific example. There is a Steak and Shake near my home, from which I order the exact same thing every 2-3 weeks. I've been doing this for a couple years now. Let's say I've ordered that same thing 30 times now, for the sake of discussion. Two sausage and egg biscuits, and two sausage, egg, and cheese breakfast tacos. Time after time, the same thing. Out of those 30 orders, if my experience was flawless 3 times, I'd be shocked. It is almost always a combination of:

*Having to repeat my order several times.

*Their ringing up the order incorrectly, resulting in the price being wrong. It has often taken 3 tries to get it right while I idle in the drive thru.

*The food being incorrect, (cheese on the biscuits, quantity wrong, no salsa for the tacos, etc)

*Why would ketchup be included in this order?

*The food not being properly presented. Hard biscuits, mushy taco shells, different temps, etc.

*The longest I've waited for this order is 17 minutes. It often takes at least 8 minutes. For biscuits. Biscuits. I can almost make the same thing at home in 17 minutes.

*Sometimes I get a smile, thank you, have a great day. Sometimes I get a garbled grunt and a bag all but tossed out of the window.

Yes, I may be a bit stupid for going back. Certainly I'm a glutton for punishment. The point is that "these people" can't perform their minimally difficult jobs as they should, so how can they justify being paid even more?
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:17 AM
 
2,499 posts, read 6,399,052 times
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When I started with Bell many years ago at $1.00 per hour,married with one child and my friend was in a trade job at $4.50 per hour,never thought about it.The difference then was decent low rent housing and working another job.
A much better balance in living cost.There was light at the end of the tunnel,very bad disparity today.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:25 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,884,402 times
Reputation: 11420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
If you think flipping burgers is so easy, I have to ask, have you ever done it? I don't think it shows a lack of ambition. Many people do that job while writing books, acting in the theater, doing art work or doing other jobs that pay little or next to nothing but are very creative.

There are lots of white collar jobs that don't pay more that $15.00 an hour. Are they any better than flipping burgers? I don't think so. Ambition doesn't always equal a big paycheck. The idea that a "lowly job" should equal lowly pay is baloney. It just perpetuates low paying jobs.

Some people just like flipping burgers for a living. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone has to do it. If that makes them happy, who is to say they should want more? That is an elitist attitude in my book. Why should that job be considered not doing better? A job is a job. Taking pride in what one does, whatever that job is should be the main thing.
Having a job flipping burgers does not show a lack of ambition, expecting that to be the job that provides more than minimal wages does. Thinking a job flipping burgers was meant to be anything but an entry level job shows a lack of ambition, you bet.

Ok, some people like flipping burgers. That means it is now a living? That is a choice, no one forces anyone to flip burgers. Lots of people like to do things, should they be entitled to a certain amount of money to do it just because they want to? You really can't see the problem with that?

Some jobs are considered entry level. That means it is a start. If you choose to remain there are do that job because you like it, congratulations, you've found happiness in your job but don't expect to get paid more than entry level pay just because that is your choice.

People are getting tired of paying for the choices of others. No one said you had to do anything, even work but then demanding others pay you what you want instead of what they want doesn't make sense.

If people want better wages for flipping burgers, then by all means, start your own business flipping the best burgers in town and charge accordingly. There are plenty of gourmet burger joints that makes good money doing nothing but making great burgers. Oh no, that means taking a risk to do something more than put your hand out doesn't it?

Now we'll have posts about how no one can start a business because of some reason, any reason but the person who won't do it.

Last edited by Mack Knife; 12-10-2013 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:34 AM
 
7,281 posts, read 8,884,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
That's what the government and big business wanted.
That is what liberals and progressives wanted. Big business? Please, business needs smart, motivated and intelligent people in order to survive. In every business there are different levels of employees. Some do jobs that pay less, some pay more. The job you get is the one you start with, what you end up with is your choice.

You like flipping burgers? Fine. However, some people who flip burgers further themselves and become leads, then managers, then district managers and then executives. For some reason, the burger flippers want to stay at the bottom and get paid more.

This entire question is the liberal mind working overtime, no responsibility for personal choices. It is never the fault of the person making the choice, it is always someone or something else. Rubbish.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Here
2,614 posts, read 5,853,974 times
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This stinks. H&M is one of my favorite stores because it's nice and also quite inexpensive...
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,271 posts, read 12,140,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
Not only all of that, but since when have workers considered these jobs as long-term, 30-year committments? What used to be a very good way for entry-level employees to hone their working skills while earning a paycheck, move up the ladder or out of that workplace and into another job, is now considered a career. That's what unionizing these worksites will guarantee, too, as well as regular merit increases at step increments for doing the same job from day to day.

As far as the "living wage" is concerned, the concept is flawed by its very nature because what constitutes a "living wage" for one employee may not be, for another. Even if it were legal to do so, are employers now supposed to inquire about a prospective employees family structure? Are employees with more dependents, for example, to be paid more for the same work because a comfortable salary for an individual is not a "living wage" for a family?

Ridiculous.
but since when have workers considered these jobs as long-term, 30-year committments??

1-since-- my 10 yr job as bank manager went down the tubes,,,post 9-11? one example
2- 6 mo later I did find a job, but not in banking- my credit was" tainted" can't get a good sh** ty job if your credit is tainted! DONT care how good your education or work ethics are--
3-for some reason post 9-11 alot of jobs left? flatlined- now I am competing with hundreds for the same job- NOT 4 or 5 other candidates,
4- higher mid level careers,, went to Monte Rey, India- etc etc. so now who will I manage over? In one single week- Lowes displaced 2500 mid level managers, my son was one of those, he has YET to make what he was making and neither have I,,, not for lack of trying or being prepared etc.
5- People in banking, retail, services, and the like all on food stamps... $8 will not allow you to live and eat both. and be happy you have yours, but it is not so easy my friend... so don't stop paying your taxes,,, as the big corporations do- some one has to pay for the food stamps.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:38 AM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 3,745,732 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
A "living wage" is an excuse for the choices people make that limit their ability to earn a better income.

"Earn" and "living wage" are rarely if ever used together.

We've managed to convince an entire generation, through an education experiment that there is no such thing as reward for winning, one need only demonstrate an effort and that is good enough to get the trophy. These kids grew up with liberal minds hand holding them every step of the way to make sure they couldn't think for themselves, only think what they are told.

Now we have people what work in a fast food business and think flipping burgers is worth $15 per hour. Why do better when you can just manage to live on the wages at a fast food place? Don't strive for better, just demand more for the least effort.

Naturally, the proponents of the everyone is entitled to a living wage will always manage to excuse a person's lack of improvement on someone else, some company or (drum roll please...) the republicans. Never mind that it is they who instilled the lack of motivation and incentive upon others through education system experimentation.

The same people who lead the charge for the "living wage" are also the same people with millions and billions of wealth at their disposal yet do little more than tell others they should be happy with a "living wage" instead of doing something about their condition to improve it.
This would be entirely true, and I would agree with you, if there were actually better jobs out there for people with better skills. But I challenge you to ask every graduate of a four-year institution if he/she is, or is not, gainfully employed at a job directly relevant to his/her field of study, at a rate of pay becoming that education (namely: substantially more than a person could be expected to be making had he/she gone to work at whatever job straight out of high school and stuck with that company for four years, having received the raises and promotions expected for someone who does good work for four years and desires advancement). I would say that a "rate of pay becoming that education" might be at least $15 per hour because that seems to be what people are demanding these days.

The backlash is not against "low-paying jobs"... it's against "the only jobs available paying low wages". I'm sure plenty of people would do what it took to get a better job if better jobs were actually available... but there are far fewer of those good jobs available in America these days than there used to be. Furthermore, when it comes to "doing what it takes to get a better job", there is a huge discrepancy between "what it takes" and "what is actually being done", especially in the realm of education. People are graduating high school having passed God only knows how many standardized tests, but possessing almost zero practical real-world knowledge or experience that an employer would desire. Also, in two generations we've experienced "degree inflation" of one entire level such that jobs which, two generations ago, would go to high school graduates are now requiring bachelor's degrees, jobs which would've gone to people with bachelor's degrees now require master's degrees, etc... and that has rendered the high school diploma essentially worthless but for being an entry ticket into a debt-inducing institution of higher education. Not EVERYONE can hack college, and if we make it so that everyone can hack college, all we've done is dumbed down college... which will further promote degree inflation and further keep good jobs out of the reach of most Americans. If costs keep going up and up, and the only jobs available to some people are "burger flipping" or whatever, I don't think it's too much to ask that burger flippers be paid a wage that enables them to live somewhere other than their parents' house, without government assistance, as long as they're hard workers and they don't waste money on things like cigarettes and beer.
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