Oakland 13 Y. O. to Remain on Life Support Another Week, Per Court Order

[WIHS2006]

^ seconded

Please tell me that the recent silence means that Jahi's family has come to terms with reality and buried her with dignity. Let this macabre freak show be over.

[Annie53]

Originally Posted by WIHS2006

^ seconded

Please tell me that the recent silence means that Jahi's family has come to terms with reality and buried her with dignity. Let this macabre freak show be over.

I doubt it is over, the family will probably sue the hospital......unless their lawyer finds out there were too many witnesses in the ICU that saw the family feeding Jahi bites of their hamburger.

{if that happened}

[hellpaso]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Once before we were lucky enough to get a link for KZ, CRNA. That means Certified Registered Nurse Anethetist (RN with additional training in anesthesia and passing a national

Thank you, MSR. Just to clarify the education of the Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist for those who may not be familiar with the title. A CRNA is Registered Nurse Practioner or Advanced Practice Nurse with a Bachelor's Degree, at least one year critical care professional nursing experience, 2-3 years of Anesthesia School resulting in a Master's degree or a Doctorate, licensed by their practice state & certified by the NBCRNA (National Board of Certification and Recertification of Nurse Anesthetists).

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by hellpaso

Thank you, MSR. Just to clarify the education of the Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist for those who may not be familiar with the title. A CRNA is Registered Nurse Practioner or Advanced Practice Nurse with a Bachelor's Degree, at least one year critical care professional nursing experience, 2-3 years of Anesthesia School resulting in a Master's degree or a Doctorate, licensed by their practice state & certified by the NBCRNA (National Board of Certification and Recertification of Nurse Anesthetists).

hellpasso,

Thank you for documenting the correct training for a CRNA. I apologize for my inaccurate summary of qualifications. I know them but was trying to write a quick summary of CRNA''s qualifications. Between being tired and not wanting to be too technical for those following to learn , plus being so grateful to KZ for addressing all the questions, I didn't make the best decision.

My apologies to all. It would have been better for me to just write CRNA and hope someone asked questions of what that degree means.

I know several CRNAs. I have tremendous respect for their work! I've had CRNA's when Attendings trusted the CRNA more than a Resident and CRNAs solo.

Did you read KZ's statements? I find his explanations extremely helpful. Unlike some in anesthesia, he clearly enjoys explaining the facts for all to understand.

Thanks again for explaining a CRNA's experience! I sincerely appreciate your help

MSR

[hellpaso]

Yes, MSR. I find KZ's quite remarks quite insightful. While reading or viewing some of these articles/videos may be disturbing, they are essential in understanding the differences in brain injury & brain death. Too often, people make quick judgments without considering the facts.

[blueherons]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Once before we were lucky enough to get a link for KZ, CRNA. That means Certified Registered Nurse Anethetist (RN with additional training in anesthesia and passing a national exam).

KZ addressez many questions we have had here. Plus, there are links. If you are truly trying to learn this is a great article that will answer many questions. He also promises a Volume II.
Trials & Tribulations: Jahi McMath: Frequently Asked Questions - Part I

There are interesting questions that follow. I was especially interested in the post from the person wondering, like I did, if the video was the one filmed at CHO in Dec. Read to see KZ's answer.

MSR

That was so fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by blueherons

That was so fascinating! Thanks for sharing!

blueherons,

It was a very educational read by a well trained and experienced CRNA. I'm looking forward to the Second Part when it's done.

I hope to post something later today, but am not certain. Very low temps. outside, schools closed etc., I'll have to see how today progresses.

MSR

[Mtn. States Resident]

Some of you may have seen the separate thread I started in this forum about the pregnant Canadian woman who was also declared brain dead near the end of Dec., 2013. The fetus has continued to grow in his brain dead mother's body. He's about 28 weeks now. Please see that thread and comment if you wish. Please read the comments of the nurse from Hospice that I asked to comment here.

The focus of this thread will continue to be on the 13 y.o. teen. Some of us are wondering if any other type of intervention could have helped this family come to terms with the brain death any easier.

I hope the nurse from Hospice and others will post your educated thoughts about this. I don't work for a Hospice so any information that is unknown, I hope anyone who works in Hospice will answer.

My understanding of Hospice is the agency can get involved with a dying patient and the family/friends as soon as they are contacted. This means Hospice care could start in a hospital or care facility, with some of the personnel ASAP and follow that patient/family until the patient dies at whatever location the patient/parent hopefully decides. Sometimes Hospice doesn't work with a patient for even a day before s/he dies. However, Hospice is required to offer certain services to the family even after death.

I honestly don't know if Hospice has worked with a brain dead patient's family before or not. Hopefully, someone does.

Since we are uncharted territory here I keep wondering what would happen if another CA child was declared brain dead before laws, hospital policies etc. get reviewed and potentially changed. I wonder if a Pediatric Hospice had been called, would that have helped the family understand why the teen's heart was beating and how Hospice could help the family, if a different path could have been followed.

Remember, in the court documents the Medical Director (Dr. Flori, I believe is how to spell her name) provided, she documented the daily offers for the Hospital Chaplain and Social Work to meet with the mother and/or family. The family would not meet with either person. Plus the repeated hours the Medical/Nursing staffs had spent explaining the teen's condition to the family were documented too.

What do you think? I hope the Hospice nurse and others will comment.

Thanks in advance for your posts.

MSR

[Rakin]

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Since we are uncharted territory here I keep wondering what would happen if another CA child was declared brain dead before laws, hospital policies etc. get reviewed and potentially changed.

Thanks for all your great posts and keeping us updated with good information.

Sad that we must pass laws when common sense is all that's needed in these cases.
Common sense and logic would tell most of us parents when it's time to let a child go.

You would think a parent would listen to the Medical professionals especially with multiple experts giving input and opinions.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by Rakin

Thanks for all your great posts and keeping us updated with good information.

Sad that we must pass laws when common sense is all that's needed in these cases.
Common sense and logic would tell most of us parents when it's time to let a child go.

You would think a parent would listen to the Medical professionals especially with multiple experts giving input and opinions.

Thanks for your kind words Rakin. Many have contributed to the discussions here with accurate information.

I hope you saw the link and answers provided by KZ a CRNA. I had thought previously that KZ was a male but that isn't correct. KZ is a female CRNA. The second part of her interview is suppose to be out after Sunday.

I agree with your post. It's hard to know what outsiders, such as the Attorney who wants to challenge the state law in a lawsuit and the Foundation in NJ and others told the mother. More accurately stated, who knows what the mother "heard."

I personally find it interesting that the family couldn't wait to sue CHO, but hasn't given the attorney their permission to sue the state about existing law.

No, I personally am not happy to think courts may decide for how long and which treatments practitioner's can or can't use for a patient. There may be a greater exodus of physicians and other practitioners from any state that passes laws about how to practice.

Additionally, just like we saw many E.R.'s in metro L.A. close, certain services may be curtailed or stopped at hospitals if laws tell the medical sub-specialists their training and experience doesn't count, the state law says death occurs when the patient can no longer do x, y, z.

I don't really know what to think of the mom and stepfather of this teen. No parent wants to bury a child. Medicine isn't perfect but the practitioners I know want to help patients.

I don't know when some parents decided they knew more than the Pediatric Neurologists, that they as a family approved of for an brain death exams as well as the critical care pediatric physicians, then refused to hear the findings of the examination and imaging. Most parents just know when enough is enough. Many parents will say they want to let their child pass in peace.

Somewhere in this case, the focus got changed so the 13 y.o. wasn't the subject just a detail.

Thanks again for your post. I hope parents have discussed some of the important details so if ever in the same situation they would know what to do....

MSR