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Love those hounds. I have used dogs to hunt. A pit bull is not a hunting dog - is that what defenders are now saying? A hunting dog scents, tracks, points, flushes, contains its' prey. It does not grab it and shake/shred it apart before the human hunter can get to it to humanely kill it and salvage its meat. A hyena might make a better hunting dog than a pit bull.
Her daughter was just severely injured and she should also pay for a "necropsy" to see if there was something wrong with the dog? Should all the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pit bulls who attack undergo necropsies (on the owners' dime)?
Isn't it obvious what is "wrong" with him? He was bred (mentally and bodily) to attack to kill another living thing (usually a bull, rat, or another fighting dog) and this is a very strong instinct in him. So strong that he reacts quickly to things that resemble his prey - a small, leashed poodle being walked down the street, the back of a child's leg who happens to skip across his field of vision - he does not always discriminate between another fighting dog and a poodle or child. And once he latches on, his instinct is to kill.
Dog's have been bred for hundreds, thousands of years for specialized behaviors - to retrieve ducks from lakes, to pull mice from mines, fox from dens, to carry loads in mountains, to herd sheep to pens, to flush birds from field, to pull sleds in bitter weather, to race other dogs, to sit easily on a lap to be petted.
A pit bull was bred to severely and quickly attack another living animal (whether bull, rat, dog, pet, or child). They were bred to attack until they and their prey (whichever comes first) are dead.
IMO A pit bull should never, ever be housed with people, especially children or other pets unable to defend themselves. It should always be muzzled around people. It is a working attack dog, not a companion dog.
Why do some insist on defending this breed as a companion dog? It is not a suitable companion dog and it is dangerous and irresponsible to suggest that it is. There are hundreds of other breeds that are suitable companion dogs.
Maybe it has some utilitarian uses that it is very suitable for. E.g. Certain types of guard dog scenarios, or maybe big city sanitation workers can let them loose in the drainage "pits" to hunt rats and reduce rat populations. Of course the workers would have to set up a protection perimeter to contain them.
The fact that pit bull supporters are pushing this dog as some sort of great companion pet does a disservice to their goal of protecting these dogs. Find a more suitable use for these dogs AND restrict breeding.
They had the presence of mind to have the dog killed.... were it mine, I would want to know what triggered such an attack.... if it happened as the poster described, then it sounds like the dog may have suffered rage syndrome.... something seen most often in English Springer Spaniels... but not unheard of in other breeds....
and fyi..... pit bulls make TERRIBLE guard dogs....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCUBS1
Which of these breeds has the combination of these things:
- Unrelenting jaw grip (even after tranquilized/shot/unconsious - see Tufts study on this)
- Severe shake and tear kill style (for maximum damage flesh tearing)
- The very high body/neck/jaw strength and low center of gravity of the "bull dog"
- Been bred for centuries to "fight on bleeding stumps" (fight to the death)
The pit bull has been very well bred to be an efficient "killing" machine - unlike other dogs who are "hunting" machines. It should have its own dog catergory.
Dog Categories...
Companion Dogs (Bischon...)
Working Dogs (Huskie...)
Hunting Dogs (Beagle...)
Guard Dogs (German Shepherd...)
Killing Dog (Pit bull terrier)
ALL dogs have to capacity to be killing dogs.....
every single one of my five, ranging from the 10 lb pomchi mix to the 70 lb boxerxlabxshepherdxrottweiler do the head shake to kill their prey.... be it a stuffed toy or a possum or chipmunk.... that is not exclusive to the pit bull.... and there are several other breeds with jaw pressure psi much higher than a pit bull's ... the German Shepherd and Rottweiler come to mind.....
apparently, you're one of those people who think pit bulls' jaws lock when they bite.... which is just another one of those myths spread around by haters....
and the fact that a pit bull will fight another pit bull to the death is testament to its loyalty to it's human.... the pit bull will die trying to please its human and in dog fighting circles, if one DOES turn human aggressive, it is immediately killed by the humans.... which is kind of a wonder to me.... that a dog can suffer the extreme abuses inflicted upon it in the name of sport and still remain loyal to the human who does it.....
oh... and Australian Cattle Dogs AKA Heelers will go for the back of the leg of someone skipping or running past ... they were bred to herd cattle and do it by nipping at the ankles of the cattle....
like the other moron in this thread who posts with such "authority" on pit bulls, it is PAINFULLY obvious that you know NOTHING about the true nature of these dogs and choose to base your opinion on the lurid headlines.... If you actually took the time to educate yourself, you would see just how wrong you are.......
They had the presence of mind to have the dog killed.... were it mine, I would want to know what triggered such an attack.... if it happened as the poster described, then it sounds like the dog may have suffered rage syndrome.... something seen most often in English Springer Spaniels... but not unheard of in other breeds....
and fyi..... pit bulls make TERRIBLE guard dogs....
ALL dogs have to capacity to be killing dogs.....
every single one of my five, ranging from the 10 lb pomchi mix to the 70 lb boxerxlabxshepherdxrottweiler do the head shake to kill their prey.... be it a stuffed toy or a possum or chipmunk.... that is not exclusive to the pit bull.... and there are several other breeds with jaw pressure psi much higher than a pit bull's ... the German Shepherd and Rottweiler come to mind.....
apparently, you're one of those people who think pit bulls' jaws lock when they bite.... which is just another one of those myths spread around by haters....
and the fact that a pit bull will fight another pit bull to the death is testament to its loyalty to it's human.... the pit bull will die trying to please its human and in dog fighting circles, if one DOES turn human aggressive, it is immediately killed by the humans.... which is kind of a wonder to me.... that a dog can suffer the extreme abuses inflicted upon it in the name of sport and still remain loyal to the human who does it.....
oh... and Australian Cattle Dogs AKA Heelers will go for the back of the leg of someone skipping or running past ... they were bred to herd cattle and do it by nipping at the ankles of the cattle....
like the other moron in this thread who posts with such "authority" on pit bulls, it is PAINFULLY obvious that you know NOTHING about the true nature of these dogs and choose to base your opinion on the lurid headlines.... If you actually took the time to educate yourself, you would see just how wrong you are.......
Of course any dog can kill, but all dogs were not specifically bred for this reason. Let's discuss which dogs, besides the pit bull, were bred specifically to kill (not hunt, track, contain, point/flush). Now, how do their "killer" instincts/methods/body types compare to the pit bulls? I believe the pit bull is the "king of the killer dog," (obviously why it's prefered in dog fighting and by criminals), but other dogs bred to kill do come to mind (e.g. rat terriers).
So let's start a list (feel free to add to this)...
Dogs Bred to Kill
Pit Bull Terrier
Rat Terrier
BTW, I think a Rottweiler was bred to herd and German Shepherd to guard/defend, whereas the above terriers were bred to rip apart flesh of an animal (e.g. a rat)
Now, of the other "killer" breeds, which are also bred for strength, size, and extreme "kill or be killed" tenacity? Which are then dangerously pushed on us (from defenders like you, or shelters who rename them (e.g. Statfordshire bulldog or terrier mix) and then adopt them out to homes with kids) like they are just another companion house pet? Which have the notorious stats of the pit bull?
A pit bull will fight to the death not because of loyalty, but because that it was it was bred to do. It is integral to it's DNA. Just like you'll see herding dogs (e.g. shepherds) circling kids around the yard, or small terriers burrowing into corners searching for vermin, without its' master ever directing its' actions.
Killing is what it has been bred to do - regardless of "loyalty." Of course heelers/shepherds can nip - it is an important herding instinct. Just like it is the pit dog's instinct to grip, shake and tear flesh, until it kills its prey or it is killed. I'll take an ankle nip over endless tearing flesh any day.
Pit bulls are not meant to be companion animals. Other working dogs, hunting dogs, guard dogs are also not meant to be house companion animals. Many animals prefer working and being outside (e.g. the husky) as long as they are well cared for. They were meant to do their specific job (pull a sled, flush a bird, or kill another animal). The pit bull is no different.
However, when other working dogs are used as companion pets they are less likely to affect the kind of harm that the pit bull as companion does, and the stats bear this out. A pit bull is a working dog, however the work it was developed to do is blood sport - to completely kill and rip apart medium/large prey (not simply to hunt them). That's not the kind of working dog I want in my house.
BTW, I never brought up jaw pressure. And I never said their jaws "lock." Why would you make that up and then immaturely call me a moron? To try to attack me and discredit my opinion, instead of logically debating the facts at hand? Many here see through this. I have worked with all types of dogs my entire life as my grandfather was a veterinarian. My brother is a policeman. Neither of them would recommend this breed as a home pet.
I use reasonable precaution with ANY and ALL dogs that could do me harm. I taught my child from a very young age about how to approach dogs, how to read their body language, and what to do if they show any signs of fear or aggression. I didn't teach her "only pit bulls" but ALL dogs.
Just because I'm not a paranoid nut about pit bulls doesn't make me an apologist. I just happen to know that if I get mauled by any other kind of dog BUT a pit, you may not read about it in the news, but that won't make me any less injured or dead.
----------"won't make me any less injured or dead ".........
Not true
A pit bull attacking you will make the news
A poodle attacking you will not
Why ?
your injury from a poodle would be less and your risk of death much less...........despite what you say in your last sentence.
Of course any dog can kill, but all dogs were not specifically bred for this reason. Let's discuss which dogs, besides the pit bull, were bred specifically to kill (not hunt, track, contain, point/flush). Now, how do their "killer" instincts/methods/body types compare to the pit bulls? I believe the pit bull is the "king of the killer dog," (obviously why it's prefered in dog fighting and by criminals), but other dogs bred to kill do come to mind (e.g. rat terriers).
So let's start a list (feel free to add to this)...
Dogs Bred to Kill
Pit Bull Terrier
Rat Terrier
BTW, I think a Rottweiler was bred to herd and German Shepherd to guard/defend, whereas the above terriers were bred to rip apart flesh of an animal (e.g. a rat)
Now, of the other "killer" breeds, which are also bred for strength, size, and extreme "kill or be killed" tenacity? Which are then dangerously pushed on us (from defenders like you, or shelters who rename them (e.g. Statfordshire bulldog or terrier mix) and then adopt them out to homes with kids) like they are just another companion house pet? Which have the notorious stats of the pit bull?
A pit bull will fight to the death not because of loyalty, but because that it was it was bred to do. It is integral to it's DNA. Just like you'll see herding dogs (e.g. shepherds) circling kids around the yard, or small terriers burrowing into corners searching for vermin, without its' master ever directing its' actions.
Killing is what it has been bred to do - regardless of "loyalty." Of course heelers/shepherds can nip - it is an important herding instinct. Just like it is the pit dog's instinct to grip, shake and tear flesh, until it kills its prey or it is killed. I'll take an ankle nip over endless tearing flesh any day.
Pit bulls are not meant to be companion animals. Other working dogs, hunting dogs, guard dogs are also not meant to be house companion animals. Many animals prefer working and being outside (e.g. the husky) as long as they are well cared for. They were meant to do their specific job (pull a sled, flush a bird, or kill another animal). The pit bull is no different.
However, when other working dogs are used as companion pets they are less likely to affect the kind of harm that the pit bull as companion does, and the stats bear this out. A pit bull is a working dog, however the work it was developed to do is blood sport - to completely kill and rip apart medium/large prey (not simply to hunt them). That's not the kind of working dog I want in my house.
BTW, I never brought up jaw pressure. And I never said their jaws "lock." Why would you make that up and then immaturely call me a moron? To try to attack me and discredit my opinion, instead of logically debating the facts at hand? Many here see through this. I have worked with all types of dogs my entire life as my grandfather was a veterinarian. My brother is a policeman. Neither of them would recommend this breed as a home pet.
If I misconstrued the context of this statement: - Unrelenting jaw grip (even after tranquilized/shot/unconsious - see Tufts study on this) , I apologize......
Rottweilers were bred to pull carts to market and guard their people on the way home from market.... GSD's were bred as herding/guard dogs.....
what does Grandpa being a vet and brother being a policeman have to do with YOU working with all types of dogs?? what kind of work??
and only a moron would rely on headlines and 2nd hand accounts about the nature of a dog breed.... My opinion comes from actual experience with a LARGE number of pit bull dogs, as well as the experience and knowledge of many friends and acquaintances who live, work and interact with these dogs on a daily basis....
do you really think that the short list of breeds I discussed above did not and does not kill the prey they were bred to hunt??
and one last time..... EVERY SINGLE DOG OUT THERE SHAKES ITS HEAD TO KILL ITS PREY.....
Lastly... you did mention the jaw strength as being an indicator of what a terrible dog the pit bull terrier is....
fwiw.... most pit bulls make EXCELLENT companion animals.....
----------"won't make me any less injured or dead ".........
Not true
A pit bull attacking you will make the news
A poodle attacking you will not
Why ?
your injury from a poodle would be less and your risk of death much less...........despite what you say in your last sentence.
I had a German Shepherd bite me once. I walked into the neighbors yard where my kids were playing (had done that hundreds of times) and the Shepherd (who I had known for years) had the instinct to protect the kids. He lunged at my ankle and held on, left a bruise and teeth puncture marks. He did not shake and tear in order to rip at my muscle/flesh as a pit bull would. He just held me in place. A poodle would also not attack like a pit bull.
One of my dogs is a small 7 lb. Yorkshire terrier (sounds sweet and innocent, doesn't he?). He catches mice all the time and employs the terrier "shake and tear" kill style. Last summer it attacked a large rat snake near our dock. It stalked and ripped that thing apart by shaking it - blood and guts flying everywhere and it would not let it go. It became possessed, with crazy eyes and growl.
Our neighbors saw the whole thing and were like "You're dog is completely possessed. What is wrong with him?" My sweet, loving, well-trained dog had no fear of the snake, and made sure it was ripped to pieces. I think that was my first-hand glimpse into the terrier kill style. I can't even imagine the damage a terrier 10 times his size could do.
Yep. That top one is the story I linked to, a couple of days back. The story unfolds a bit, with time. The 'Mail' overloaded my computer with crap, and I had to crash it. But the story is on dogsbite.org, which will NOT overload your machine.
Beyond the luscious array of trailerpark names, this quote is of interest: Sheriff's Investigator Anthony Anderson said he'd favor a ban on pit bulls and other vicious breeds. "Every dog bite case I've worked at the hospital has involved a pit bull," he said. Investigator Roger Garner agreed. "When I was at Tupelo and we had attacks by dogs, almost 100 percent of the time it was by a pit bull or some pit mix," he said.
If I misconstrued the context of this statement: - Unrelenting jaw grip (even after tranquilized/shot/unconsious - see Tufts study on this) , I apologize......
Rottweilers were bred to pull carts to market and guard their people on the way home from market.... GSD's were bred as herding/guard dogs.....
what does Grandpa being a vet and brother being a policeman have to do with YOU working with all types of dogs?? what kind of work??
and only a moron would rely on headlines and 2nd hand accounts about the nature of a dog breed.... My opinion comes from actual experience with a LARGE number of pit bull dogs, as well as the experience and knowledge of many friends and acquaintances who live, work and interact with these dogs on a daily basis....
do you really think that the short list of breeds I discussed above did not and does not kill the prey they were bred to hunt??
and one last time..... EVERY SINGLE DOG OUT THERE SHAKES ITS HEAD TO KILL ITS PREY.....
Lastly... you did mention the jaw strength as being an indicator of what a terrible dog the pit bull terrier is....
fwiw.... most pit bulls make EXCELLENT companion animals.....
The above bolded is false.
And yes, you misconstrued my statement.
I have enough first-hand experience from working with my family business, as well as access to research and first-hand accounts to form an opinion. Not once have I posted/relied on a headline - you must have me confused with another.
The breeds you listed are trained to assist the hunt by tracking, containing, announcing the prey. What hunter would want a hunting dog bred (as a pit bull is) to tear apart their prey before they can even get to it to put it down? You think you can retrain a pit bull to be a tracker or a pointer or a flusher? A pit bull is not a hunting dog. Other dog breeds will hold their prey for their owner.
The pit bull was bred (like other terriers) to KILL vermin and additionally it was mixed with the bulldog in order to be used to FIGHT in the ring. It is precisely this combination of breeds that make it dangerous. So which of your listed dogs were bred specifically for killing and fighting? Do you think a dog bred specifically for killing and fighting is the most suitable family companion dog, or perhaps there are better options?
Why have you not addressed which other dog breeds have ALL of the other "Attack/Kill" breeding criteria that I mentioned? You just keep listing dogs that have one or two of these criteria. Pit bulls are dangerous because of the combination of all these qualities in one animal. Another poster mentioned it is also categorized as a defensive "nanny dog," which makes it even more dangerous and territorial.
Killer traits combined in one dog...
- Unrelenting jaw grip
- Severe shake and tear kill instinct (differs from other breed's instincts to track, contain, point/flush, retrieve, grab/hold without shaking instincts).
- High body/neck/jaw strength and low center of gravity of the "bull dog" build
- Been bred for centuries to "fight on bleeding stumps" (fight to the death)
aaaahhhh yes... Colleen Lynn's webpage of half-truths and outright lies.... I was wondering when it would make and appearance in this thread.....
there is more to her story than she would like her blind supporters to know....
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R.I.P. Bam Bam (I'm getting so teary here...)
