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Old 04-29-2014, 09:59 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,073,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawler View Post
maybe I have no sense of adventure, but there are just some places that humans don't belong.
I don't believe that there is any place that humans don't belong, just not most humans.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:01 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,073,754 times
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Again, climate change is become a major issue for Everest.

More Than 4% of Death Row Inmates May Be Innocent | Science/AAAS | News
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
2,534 posts, read 3,796,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcrawler View Post
maybe I have no sense of adventure, but there are just some places that humans don't belong.


climbing mt evrest is one of them
I agree...

If you want to risk death, climbing Mt. Everest would rank near the top of the list. I personally don't see a problem with the photo I posted...

For some reason the mods haven't deleted it, so maybe I'm not the only one.
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:38 AM
 
1,273 posts, read 3,327,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
I don't think that a lot of folks who dream of climbing Mt. Everset are fully aware of the fact that the final approaches to the summit are strewn with over 200 bodies of people who once had exactly the same dream.

Those bodies are too high and often in places to dangerous to ever be removed. A few climbers have climbed with whatever they could carry to respectfully cover some, mostly with their nation's flags and small personal momentos, but most will lie forever where they have fallen, and only Everest will take care of them in it's own way. At the temperatures of the summit, and due to the exceedingly thin air up there, they will remain as they are for a very long time. Trying to bring them down is impossible.

With every year in the future, there will be additions yearly. Most of the deaths happen in the lower zones, and most of the dead who didn't fall down crevasses, or were mangled beyond recovery, are taken out now. And they comprise most of the yearly deaths on Everest. Others die back in civilization from the lingering effects of altitude sickness.

There is a very powerful yearning in most of humanity to go to the extremes of nature; the highest, the lowest, the most dangerous, the most unforgiving. There is something in Homo Sapiens' biology that makes us all the conquerors of nature to some extent, whether it is growing gardens where they wouldn't grow naturally or whether it is at the very edge of survival with our most advanced technologies.

The only thing I have problems with is how Everest has changed in our minds. Far too many folks all over the world think it's still the pristine province the first explorers experienced, but it's reality is now different. Everest has become an adventure park, nothing but an very expensive guided tour, where the very real lethality is overlooked or not mentioned.

Rob Hall, an American mountaineer who had exceptional climbing and guiding skills, created one of the most successful Everest expedition companies after he summited Everest, and bragged that he could lead any reasonably fit person to the summit with safety and surety of success.
And he did, many times. But even Hall succumbed to his own arrogance, and he joined the dead on Everest's summit, alongside several of his clients and alongside other guides whose experience and skills matched his own.

My thought about the picture ovcatto linked is it is very valid to this discussion, both as part of the reality of what a commercial expedition will encounter now, and as a warning to those who may be thinking of tackling Everest next year instead of taking that trip up the Nile instead, or paying to join a whitewater trip down the Grand Canyon.
There are other photos that are both more horrifying and gruesome than that one. In fact, one picture shows another body that was discovered under Green Boots. That body was indeed much more gruesome, and the person had, until then, remained unseen for many years before Green Boots died.

Green Boots has a name. He was once a Constable with the Indian police force that patrols the Indo-Nepalese border.

If you have the stomach for it, you can read about him, his life, and some of the other lives of the people who have perished on the mountain. Be warned: there are pictures of many of them, and most are more shocking than the one ovcatto selected.

Over 200 Dead Bodies on Mount Everest | Sometimes Interesting

I also highly recommend Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air for those who are really interested. Krakauer is unique in that he had already summited Everest before he accepted the assignment to go with an expedition and write an account for a leading outdoor magazine on it.
He was a participant, an observer, and a journalist of great ability all at the same time in 1996 Everest disaster, and in my mind, no better book has ever been written on the subject.



Excellent post... and totally agree on Into Thin Air. I think I will re-read it this week. David Breashears has also written an excellent book, High Exposure, and Dr. Beck Weathers, who lost his hands on Krakauer's same expedition, wrote Left for Dead as his account of that climbing debacle. The one good thing that came out of it (I am being snarky now) is the spoiled rich gal who had her ass hauled up the mountain by Sherpas basically disappeared from society after she got back home.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
2,534 posts, read 3,796,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Rob Hall, an American mountaineer who had exceptional climbing and guiding skills, created one of the most successful Everest expedition companies after he summited Everest, and bragged that he could lead any reasonably fit person to the summit with safety and surety of success.
And he did, many times. But even Hall succumbed to his own arrogance, and he joined the dead on Everest's summit, alongside several of his clients and alongside other guides whose experience and skills matched his own.

My thought about the picture ovcatto linked is it is very valid to this discussion, both as part of the reality of what a commercial expedition will encounter now, and as a warning to those who may be thinking of tackling Everest next year instead of taking that trip up the Nile instead, or paying to join a whitewater trip down the Grand Canyon.
There are other photos that are both more horrifying and gruesome than that one. In fact, one picture shows another body that was discovered under Green Boots. That body was indeed much more gruesome, and the person had, until then, remained unseen for many years before Green Boots died.

Green Boots has a name. He was once a Constable with the Indian police force that patrols the Indo-Nepalese border.

If you have the stomach for it, you can read about him, his life, and some of the other lives of the people who have perished on the mountain. Be warned: there are pictures of many of them, and most are more shocking than the one ovcatto selected.

Over 200 Dead Bodies on Mount Everest | Sometimes Interesting
Thank you.

That was the exact reason I posted the photo. The photo was by far one of the more mild photos I've seen of the corpses on Everest while still giving the reality effect which is what I intended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catfancier View Post
[/b]

Excellent post... and totally agree on Into Thin Air.
Thanks for the info. I'm gonna pick up a copy.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
19,376 posts, read 13,040,478 times
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I believe the entire problem comes from viewing an Everest expedition as a commercial venture.

Mountaineers who climb for the love of the sport climb other mountains together as a team, practicing their techniques, learning who is the best leader and who is the weakest or strongest, and learning how to take care of each other first and above all else.
Their goals are to summit Everest if possible, but if that can't happen, everyone comes down alive. If everyone can summit, that's great, but if one member is too disabled to summit, another who could will stay with that person while only the strongest go on. If everything goes bad, they get out and go down.
The mountain all always be there. They will return again if they are able, even if it takes them years to get up the money. While they are saving up, they are practicing and planning.

But when someone pays a lot of money for a 3 month vacation, and is led to believe that summiting Everest is almost guaranteed, and that team practice, lifesaving lessons, and team cohesion isn't all that necessary, the person arrives with an entirely different set of expectations.

The closer one comes to the summit, the increasingly dangerous it all becomes. The smallest mistakes can compound extremely fast, and an accident can often cause a chain reaction. With every climber intent on only one thing- reaching the top- few realize that coming back down is where the hazards lie.

But the money is a powerful lure. All expedition companies are owned and operated by climbers who once only loved the sport and approached Everest in the right way. Making several million dollars for 3-4 month's work can blind even the best of them.
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:54 AM
 
8,440 posts, read 10,724,542 times
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Default Great Posts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
I believe the entire problem comes from viewing an Everest expedition as a commercial venture.

Mountaineers who climb for the love of the sport climb other mountains together as a team, practicing their techniques, learning who is the best leader and who is the weakest or strongest, and learning how to take care of each other first and above all else.
Their goals are to summit Everest if possible, but if that can't happen, everyone comes down alive. If everyone can summit, that's great, but if one member is too disabled to summit, another who could will stay with that person while only the strongest go on. If everything goes bad, they get out and go down.
The mountain all always be there. They will return again if they are able, even if it takes them years to get up the money. While they are saving up, they are practicing and planning.

But when someone pays a lot of money for a 3 month vacation, and is led to believe that summiting Everest is almost guaranteed, and that team practice, lifesaving lessons, and team cohesion isn't all that necessary, the person arrives with an entirely different set of expectations.

The closer one comes to the summit, the increasingly dangerous it all becomes. The smallest mistakes can compound extremely fast, and an accident can often cause a chain reaction. With every climber intent on only one thing- reaching the top- few realize that coming back down is where the hazards lie.

But the money is a powerful lure. All expedition companies are owned and operated by climbers who once only loved the sport and approached Everest in the right way. Making several million dollars for 3-4 month's work can blind even the best of them.

Thanks everyone for keeping this thread alive. I had family emergency take me away.

Aren't BanjoMike's posts great? I read them frequently since we're in the same area. I don't know if you, Mike, ever met Dr. Freer or not before she moved to Bozeman. While EIRMC financed it, she was the Medical Director of AirIdaho that got things moving for quick flights from Yellowstone to a Trauma II hospital equipped to deal with all traumas, pulmonary/cardiac disorders in High Altitude Medicine.

I see she finally posted on April 25. Here is her post about Everest E.R. remaining open if patients need services.

We're still here

MSR
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:56 PM
 
148 posts, read 159,896 times
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Somewhat off topic, but I was surprised to learn that Sir George Everest pronounced his name Eve-rest, unlike the mountain named after him.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:11 AM
 
8,440 posts, read 10,724,542 times
Reputation: 6201
Default 3 Americans Missing

An update.
3 climbers swept by avalanche, missing in Nepal


MSR
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
20,344 posts, read 20,451,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident View Post
3 Americans Missing
An update.
3 climbers swept by avalanche, missing in Nepal


MSR
not Americans
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