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Old 05-01-2014, 03:05 PM
 
Location: West Coast, US
77 posts, read 81,504 times
Reputation: 261

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
The chain of comments following an execution are always really disturbing to me. I think it makes us feel superior to think that guys like this guy are fundamentally different, somehow less human. But people don't become "evil" in some vacuum. There are no uncaused causes. If you were somehow thrust into this guys psyche from the first moment of his life... you would be him now. One does not choose their genetics, parents, peers, traumatic experiences, etc.. Indeed, the notion of unfettered free will is incompatible with both logic and physics.

Now, I get that few of you feel empathy towards a person that you have conveniently placed in a bucket, believing that you - being the person you have grown up to be - would "never do anything like this." And the odds are 99.99% that you are right. But the idea that revenge or torture or any negative consequence will undo what he already did... is wrong. Hoping a murderer dies writhing on a gurney or lives a life of horror has NEVER ONCE resurrected a child or restored a rape victim to wholeness.
I agree with this completely.

That being said: what, then, is to be done with murderers and other offenders? Turning the other cheek just reinforces the message that there won't be any consequences for ruining others' lives. Victims-- direct and indirect-- don't get that sort of clemency; why let the offender walk away laughing and (very likely) do it again?

The dp may or may not solve the problem, depending on your perspective... but what does NOT addressing the issue do? Or using up increasingly-strained resources to "mercifully" keep the offender sequestered, but fed/sheltered/etc. for the next 50 or so years (something we lowlife non-murderers typically have to scramble to do)?
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:30 PM
 
3,445 posts, read 4,851,990 times
Reputation: 6083
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
.

I am against the dp in every instance. .
Yep...until someone in your family is raped and murdered by some monster.

But you Christians always turn a blind eye except when it comes to telling people how to live.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,718 posts, read 1,538,045 times
Reputation: 5664
Recedivism rate is always 0 among executed felons.

I have no sympathy for the killer, he beat, kidnapped, raped, sodomized, shot twice and then buried a woman alive and left her to die. There were two other victims in the crime spree who were not killed, but were kidnapped, beat, raped and sodomized (If I read the court charges correctly the male was forced to perform "oral sodomy", but I did not understand he was raped OSCN Found Document:LOCKETT v. STATE), and I believe the death penalty was appropriate for the visiousness of the crime.

I also believe we entrust the state, on our behalf, to carry out the execution, and that execution should be as quick and painless as possible. In this case the state did not meet it's obligation for a quick and painless (or as painless as possible) death.

That does not change the fact that it was an appropriate sentence IMO.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:51 PM
 
10,346 posts, read 7,631,051 times
Reputation: 4520
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
The chain of comments following an execution are always really disturbing to me. I think it makes us feel superior to think that guys like this guy are fundamentally different, somehow less human. But people don't become "evil" in some vacuum. There are no uncaused causes. If you were somehow thrust into this guys psyche from the first moment of his life... you would be him now. One does not choose their genetics, parents, peers, traumatic experiences, etc.. Indeed, the notion of unfettered free will is incompatible with both logic and physics.

Now, I get that few of you feel empathy towards a person that you have conveniently placed in a bucket, believing that you - being the person you have grown up to be - would "never do anything like this." And the odds are 99.99% that you are right. But the idea that revenge or torture or any negative consequence will undo what he already did... is wrong. Hoping a murderer dies writhing on a gurney or lives a life of horror has NEVER ONCE resurrected a child or restored a rape victim to wholeness.

All we do in rooting on vengeance is add one extra cherry upon the bloody sundae of the world's misery. By not protecting him and rooting on his agony, we are no different from the most base savages. Worse, we BELIEVE we are different because our evil is somehow justified; that our vengeance is somehow purified by the morality of our hatred. I reject it, and yes I weep for this man's death or pain as much as for the girl he murdered. I am connected to each man and woman in society, and when their limbs are ripped, so are mine. When they die, a piece of me dies too. I fear the idea of losing that empathy, that understanding, that notion that even for the most monstrous humans, "there but for the grace of God go I."

Well said !
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,904 posts, read 11,046,287 times
Reputation: 9036
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
If you can't see an issue with it, then you are as bad as he was. It's just human nature I guess to be able to justify all kinds of wrongs and evils because someone else did it and did it worse maybe. When we put down a mad dog, one that really hurt or killed someone, why don't we take a week or more killing the dog. Chop off a foot and inflict an nonlethal injury each day till that BAD dog dies. Hey, in your way of thinking that would be just and right because the dog put someone else through some kind of Hell.
lol. I started to ask what on earth you're talking about, but then realized I don't care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RomaniGypsy View Post
Honestly, I don't care if he suffers unusually. He didn't care if his victims suffered, so we shouldn't care if he suffers.
I don't think we should set out to make sure the criminal suffers, but if it happens, well, that's the way it goes! No sense bawling around about it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 04:12 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 5,395,837 times
Reputation: 11918
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaboy View Post
Spoken like a true liberal who "feels" for everyone, lets all sing kumbaya, shall we? OH, BUT WAIT, YOU FORGET TO MENTION............THE VICTIM IN YOUR RANTING POST OF MEANINGLESS DRIBBLE.

Yes, the victim that could have been your daughter, or even you. Shall we go over again what he did to her for you?

In most places about this earth, this animal would have been beaten to death in the streets.
Thereby demonstrating the flawed thinking that allows the DP in this Century...

Listen, Alaska Boy, if you check my other posts you will know I am not exactly a "liberal".

What I am is, overflowing with common sense.

Common Sense tells ME, that I do not wish my government (you know, those lying cheating politicians we all vote for) to have the power to murder its citizens.

If you had an ounce of common sense you would feel the same.

Politicians have the power to legally murder just about anyone they please, in a DP society.

Think on that. Those rich white old guys that can't lie straight in bed, are in charge of WHO DIES and WHO LIVES.

You the Great American People, so proud of your "right to bear arms" in case of unforseen governmental collapse, YOU are giving this same government you arm yourselves against and so mistrust (rightfully), the right to LEGALLY kill you, your child, your neighbour, your friend, your parent.

This is one of the reasons Americans are viewed as stupid by the rest of the world. Lack of foresight, refusal to contemplate the big picture. The DP is based on vengeance which actually has no place in the justice system in a so-called civilised, Christian society. Vengeance is MINE sayeth the Lord. I mean, you wave the bible on every other subject, yet ignore a specific instruction on a vitally important matter because you want to see blood to make yourselves feel better.

What if you live in a DP state and the local sheriff gets a hard on for you, plants some evidence, and you are convicted and sent to the chair/injection/firing squad/gallows when you're completely innocent? Think about that.

Statistics tell us it happens one time in 25 - an innocent person is put to death by your great corrupt money grubbing Capitalist politicians - usually poor, usually black.

Call me "Liberal" like it's a dirty word.

I prefer to use the term "intelligent".

Last edited by cindersslipper; 05-01-2014 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 05-01-2014, 04:13 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 5,395,837 times
Reputation: 11918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
Soooo much emotion on this thread.

I find it super ironic when people can make comments like 'I hope he suffered' while not understanding that this is the same attitude that causes people to hurt others in the first place.
+1

It defies logic.



Then skip on over to the parenting threads and the same posters are whining because someone's bullying their little precious in high school.

IT'S THE SAME THING.

A basic disregard for another human being. A conscious decision to behave like a bully to make yourself feel better.

The DP is really vengeance, ie "getting back" at someone you believe "deserves it", same as posting chit about others on social media.

The fact that a far worse punishment is sitting in a jail cell for 40 years, seems to escape everyone - they want to see someone, anyone, "fry" much the same as the Salem Witch Hunts.

Burn them alive!

Oh but make sure you're all nice to my little precious on Facebook ok?

DP supporters should take a breath and try to imagine THEMSELVES in the chair, wrongly convicted.

It would be a whole different story.
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Old 05-01-2014, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Down the rabbit hole
847 posts, read 896,811 times
Reputation: 2657
Was this man convicted on DNA evidence or by witness testimony? I mean, we're talking about a black man in Oklahoma here. I'd support the death penalty ifthe conviction has DNA proof to back up the prosecution's evidence and if we limit appeals to two. There's been too many stories in the news lately of men released after years of incarceration.......exonerated by DNA

If there's the slightest chance of innocence, the death penalty should not be an option. Even in the year 2014, people and methods are still fallible....especially when dealing with high profile cases where race is a big issue. Granted, I don't want my tax money going towards keeping some animal who's killed and raped alive but by the same token, I don't want tax money spent on fighting innumerable appeals for criminals with airtight convictions who are destined to die anyway.

I don't so much have a problem with the death penalty per se but rather how the decision is made. What about those who wish to die after committing a heinous crime? Despite the monetary savings in cases with no appeals, how is death considered a punishment when it offers a quick out? The death penalty is a many edged sword with no absolutes on either side of the coin. I think it raises more questions than it answers.
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:11 PM
 
1,121 posts, read 546,920 times
Reputation: 1507
Doesn't Utah still have the firing squad? That method is certain, instant and painless. Why all this sympathy for upright walking garbage? So it suffered before death? SO WHAT??
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Old 05-01-2014, 06:11 PM
 
Location: I live wherever I am.
1,935 posts, read 3,512,882 times
Reputation: 3217
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
If you can't see an issue with it, then you are as bad as he was. It's just human nature I guess to be able to justify all kinds of wrongs and evils because someone else did it and did it worse maybe. When we put down a mad dog, one that really hurt or killed someone, why don't we take a week or more killing the dog. Chop off a foot and inflict an nonlethal injury each day till that BAD dog dies. Hey, in your way of thinking that would be just and right because the dog put someone else through some kind of Hell.

I find that so many Americans and they are usually of the RWNJ variety take their constitution very seriously, that is until it comes into conflict with something unconstitutional that they think is OK. In case you don't know it the US constitution prohibits "Cruel" punishment. PERIOD!!!!!!!!
There is no way to kill someone which is not "cruel" in someone's opinion. Regardless of how the person dies, he still dies and afterwards retains no memory of what was done to him. He's dead. Game over, end of story. He's bleeding demised. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff, bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible... he's an ex-person. I can see the whole "cruel and unusual punishment" being applied to lesser crimes but who determines what is cruel and unusual? I, being of the type often referred to by the lib-wusses as a "right wing nut job" would say that there is very little... perhaps nothing... that would be "cruel and unusual". You try to commit a crime against someone and you deserve everything you get, even if it's death at the hands of the guy you try to victimize... like that dude who executed the teenagers who had been burglarizing his house when they arrived for the umpteenth time. The lib-wusses would say that just about everything is "cruel and unusual". (I say that THEY should be the ones to foot the bill for the lifetime of incarceration and treatment for these criminals. If you voted for Obama, you foot the bill. If you didn't, you don't. I'd bet THAT would change the tune of a lot of these lib-wusses, when it's THEIR bank accounts that are being emptied to pay for benefits and necessities for murderers, rapists, thieves, and arsonists.)

As a Christian man, I have had my issues with the Bible but I still think that one of its principles is the most logical way to deal with any transgression - "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life". Of course, I would prefer the method whereby crime victims are given the opportunity to determine (without nullification from anyone else) the punishment to be given a criminal for his crime. I guarantee you that that would drop our crime rate to near zero... if thieves believed that their victims might put them in front of a firing squad.
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