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Old 05-02-2014, 01:07 AM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1552

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito View Post
It's not right, but some of us get so upset about the things people do.

The person he killed died painfully.
I am aware of that. I too hate people who do these things. But when a government is permitted to do the same thing to the condemned, who knows whether the same government can turn it around on others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
If people are behaving emotionally I think its is because they are thinking first and foremost of the innocent teenage girl that was shot and buried alive. Its difficult to find any kind of sympathy for the villain in this case.
That's precisely what corrections/criminal justice agencies count on. They can mistreat prisoners and nobody will care.
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Old 05-02-2014, 04:27 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,739 posts, read 2,481,723 times
Reputation: 1425
I still don't understand why Americans have to have to make the death penalty in to some macabre side show, with viewing galleries and strange methods of execution.

When we had the death penalty in Britain it was largely carried out by those who sought to just dispatch the guilty individual as quickly and painlessly as possible.

British hangman Albert Pierrepoint, hung over 435 people, including Americans guilty of crimes while posted in Britain during WW2, as well as the Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg, serial killers, those involved in crimes of passion such as Ruth Ellis and even people who later turned out to be innocent. He however made sure that no one suffered and that the whole unpleasant business was done with some compassion and humanity.

Albert Pierrepoint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Reenactment of the hanging of Derek Bentley aged 19 at HM Prison Wandsworth on the 28 January 1953 from the film 'Let Him Have It'.



Quote:

It is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree. There have been murders since the beginning of time, and we shall go on looking for deterrents until the end of time. If death were a deterrent, I might be expected to know. It is I who have faced them last, young men and girls, working men, grandmothers. I have been amazed to see the courage with which they take that walk into the unknown. It did not deter them then, and it had not deterred them when they committed what they were convicted for. All the men and women whom I have faced at that final moment convince me that in what I have done I have not prevented a single murder.

Albert Pierrepoint 1974
Quote:

“The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of the civilisation of any country. A calm and dispassionate recognition of the rights of the accused against the state and even of convicted criminals against the state, a constant heart-searching by all charged with the duty of punishment, a desire and eagerness to rehabilitate in the world of industry of all those who have paid their dues in the hard coinage of punishment, tireless efforts towards the discovery of curative and regenerating processes and an unfaltering faith that there is a treasure, if only you can find it in the heart of every person – these are the symbols which in the treatment of crime and criminals mark and measure the stored up strength of a nation, and are the sign and proof of the living virtue in it.”

Winston Spencer Churchill
In terms of Albert Pierrepoint he assisted his Uncle Thomas Pierrpoint in executing many of the 18 American Servicemen who were hung at Shepton Mallet Prison in Somerset, England during World War 2.

Quote:

Albert Pierrepoint is known to have disapproved of the Americans' practice of reading out to the condemned man, as he stood on the trap-door, the details of his offence and sentence. He said:

The part of the routine which I found it hardest to acclimatise myself to was the, to me, sickening interval between my introduction to the prisoner and his death. Under British custom I was working to the sort of timing where the drop fell between eight and twenty seconds after I had entered the condemned cell. Under the American system, after I had pinioned the prisoner, he had to stand on the drop for perhaps six minutes while his charge sheet was read out, sentence spelt out, and he was asked if he had anything to say, and after that I was instructed to get on with the job.

—Albert Pierrepoint, Home Office Executioner

HM Prison Shepton Mallet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:09 AM
 
854 posts, read 1,036,333 times
Reputation: 949
These threads always have the tendency of bringing the sadistic creeps out of the woodwork. They aren't speaking from sympathy for the victims but rather finding a socially acceptable outlet for their sick desires.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:33 AM
 
413 posts, read 552,391 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Because he didn't die by execution. He died, but the execution failed to kill him. This is the equivalent of a man who was hanged but did not die from the hanging.
Actually the drugs did kill him. Instead of going directly into the heart via the catheter in the vein, the drugs went into the tissue surrounding whatever vein they were injecting into. Then drugs were absorbed through the tissues into his bloodstream. The drugs eventually found their way to the heart and caused his heart to stop.
For those of you who want the inmate to feel pain - he did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
That's what chemical injection is supposed to do.
The first drug injected is a sedative overdose, which, by itself, should be enough to kill the condemned.
But just to make sure, the second drug paralyzes the condemned's body, and the third is a poison that stops the heart.

No witness ever knows for sure just how much pain and distress happens. If the sedative does not have enough time to work, the paralyzed person cannot display pain physically even though they may feel intense pain. Once paralyzed, they can't even blink.

Those who have died in a botched execution have yelled, screamed, or shouted out that they were in great pain.
I've worked in the veterinary field for awhile and if it is done right it is painless except the initial injection (pain medication mixed with a sedative) - because it is usually given subcutaneously. About the same pain level that a vaccination would cause.
The sedative should put the inmate into a deep sleep. The paralytic is used to keep his body from having some of the usual (normal) twitches the body goes through when it is dying. Then they inject the third drug that stops the heart. The paralytic is not given for the inmate. It is given to make the witnesses feel better about the execution.
Vets don't use a paralytic because we explain to the owners what is going to happen and that it is part of the normal dying process.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
445 posts, read 1,203,820 times
Reputation: 522
I am a liberal in just about every respect, but I have no problem with the death penalty in egregious cases such as this, where there's no doubt the accused is guilty and the nature of the crime is heinous (the Cheshire murders in Connecticut would be another example). Some people are just a waste of oxygen. If you had a rabid dog, you'd put it down. Same thing here. There has been a lot of hand-wringing by the media over this guy in the last couple of days but the news stories conveniently skim over the nature of his crimes. I'll save my tears for more deserving individuals, such as his victims.

My husband, who is from England, disagrees with me on this. I guess I'm just a blood-thirsty American.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: York, PA
2,662 posts, read 5,137,119 times
Reputation: 2562
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory View Post
Most on death row have been sitting around and eating up tax dollars for years. Their sentence should be carried out in 30 days. Appeals? If not within 30 days, too bad. I wouldn't expect more if it were me and it was the law. How many people are executed in a decade as it is? Very few. Ramp it up and make them public.

Hanging is quick and efficient. A 10-15' drop would end all of the humane nonsense. How is killing someone humane anyway? Ask the murderer that question before you put the noose around his neck.
But if it were you sitting there or something you know you didn't do, I'm sure you would be crying bloody murder.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Edina, MN, USA
6,881 posts, read 7,083,442 times
Reputation: 16141
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillife View Post
I am a liberal in just about every respect, but I have no problem with the death penalty in egregious cases such as this, where there's no doubt the accused is guilty and the nature of the crime is heinous (the Cheshire murders in Connecticut would be another example). Some people are just a waste of oxygen. If you had a rabid dog, you'd put it down. Same thing here. There has been a lot of hand-wringing by the media over this guy in the last couple of days but the news stories conveniently skim over the nature of his crimes. I'll save my tears for more deserving individuals, such as his victims.

My husband, who is from England, disagrees with me on this. I guess I'm just a blood-thirsty American.
I totally agree with you - I hope he suffered.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Edina, MN, USA
6,881 posts, read 7,083,442 times
Reputation: 16141
Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
And others of us find opinions like yours and the existence of the death penalty to be an "embarrassment."

You are what - the mind of God, now? You know that this individual in hell? Perhaps he was a Christian and he repented.

Then according to Christianity, he's saved.
It's a standing joke how many convicts walk out of prison as born again Christians. I wonder how many of these people end up back in prison.
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: York, PA
2,662 posts, read 5,137,119 times
Reputation: 2562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdancer View Post
Was this man convicted on DNA evidence or by witness testimony? I mean, we're talking about a black man in Oklahoma here. I'd support the death penalty ifthe conviction has DNA proof to back up the prosecution's evidence and if we limit appeals to two. There's been too many stories in the news lately of men released after years of incarceration.......exonerated by DNA

If there's the slightest chance of innocence, the death penalty should not be an option. Even in the year 2014, people and methods are still fallible....especially when dealing with high profile cases where race is a big issue. Granted, I don't want my tax money going towards keeping some animal who's killed and raped alive but by the same token, I don't want tax money spent on fighting innumerable appeals for criminals with airtight convictions who are destined to die anyway.

I don't so much have a problem with the death penalty per se but rather how the decision is made. What about those who wish to die after committing a heinous crime? Despite the monetary savings in cases with no appeals, how is death considered a punishment when it offers a quick out? The death penalty is a many edged sword with no absolutes on either side of the coin. I think it raises more questions than it answers.
Well said
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:57 PM
 
24,890 posts, read 11,610,800 times
Reputation: 11621
Quote:
Originally Posted by vmaxnc View Post
Why should it matter who is guilty?

Accidental deaths aren't murders.


Someone said that executing anyone is cruel. Consider this-if you tell your 10 year old son to not go into the neighbors yard or he will be grounded for a week, is grounding him for a week after he is caught in the neighbors yard cruel? If the law is to not exceed the speed limit or you will be written a ticket, is it cruel to write a ticket to a speeder? If the law is to not murder people, or the penalty of losing your own life will be enforced, is it cruel to execute someone when they murder another person?

It is literally just that simple in many murder cases.
You have misqouted me by inserting in bolded statements into the "qoute" that came from you, then responded below the qoute. Please do not do that.
Quote:
"This is true, because we do it wrong. We don't trust our system enough to accept the outcome of one trial (what does that say about our system?) so we allow 10, 15, 20+ years of appeals and motions. Most of those have nothing to do with the guilt of the convicted. They're maneuvers to lengthen his/her life, but they are just as guilty. The system is very broken, especially with regards to the death penalty."
Im sorry but the fact that we execute 4% who are not in fact guilty of the crime tells you that despite this we're doing it wrong. We give so many opportunities to appeal because we are in fact dealing with a mans life. Thats a big deal. This is why I believe death sentences should require a
much higher standard of guilt.

Quote:
Not true at all. 4% of those convicted may be not guilty. Big difference.
Please. Do you really truly thing our court system works that well? You've been watching too many court dramas.

Know what the primary difference is between being convicted and not convicted? Money.

I don't find it cruel to execute someone as long as we don't botch it up so horribly, and we actually execute a guilty person.
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