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Old 05-03-2014, 12:18 PM
 
460 posts, read 393,396 times
Reputation: 1091

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Quote:
Originally Posted by james777 View Post
I don't know about off topic; I would think that the moderator would inform me about that. I answered the ridiculous post about "white privilege" because it is pure garbage, a figment of the wild imagination of a lazy, money hungry, sociology teacher.

I don't know how much more money we need to spend, but just about any way that money is spent would be preferable to paying a stinking liberal teacher to dream up more garbage phrases to shame whites and to make blacks hate whites. I wasn't even thinking about a non white hiring preference; that is your suggestion.
You can't be flipping serious. A lot of times I get frustrated with posts, but it is rare I get angry. Do you not realize that black families have never had as much as 6% of the assets of white families? NEVER. White privilege isn't some made up thing, it's an empirical reality. If a country systematically subordinates an entire group of people for 300 years and it turns out that a lot of those people are extremely poor... well, that seems obvious.

Well, guess what? 45 years of half-assed affirmative action and housing projects hasn't undone even a tiny sliver of what was done. Black neighborhoods are still segregated because whenever black groups start "movin' on up", white people "move on out" and it occurs with just as much statistical regularity as it did in the 1960s.

One analogy that comes to mind: There are two football teams, one was given by force of law the best nutritionists, scores of the newest weight machines, advanced computer metrics which can plot out the highest-probability plays in all scenarios, personal trainers, psychologists, and a dozen assistant coaches. The other was legally restricted to using only two rusting Nautilus machines, an old paper playbook of the Wishbone formation, some table scraps, and a junior high field to practice on. They are then scheduled to play each other. Your idea seems to be as long as the *referees* aren't paid off, it's a totally fair and equal game.

Well, that's bunk. White people, and I am as white as can be (even my NAME is White), continue to benefit in every aspect of life simply by being white. Who is hiring? White people. Who holds all the economic power? White people. Who are the judges, the lawyers, the cops? White people. You just need to admit that it's real, that there are whole neighborhoods of kids that will grow up unable to compete for jobs, etc.. because the lingering effects of racism have barely even been addressed.

And it's more than just paying money to the tune of Trillions of dollars or engaging in even more robust Affirmative Action, it would require a whole new macrosocial understanding of how racism doesn't disappear because people are colorblind. Racism is about institutions and economic structures, not words.
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:45 PM
 
11,411 posts, read 6,468,789 times
Reputation: 6173
Quote:
Originally Posted by apexgds View Post
Do you really think Jay Z goes to the mall and shops for his own clothes and accessories? More likely he puts on whatever shows up when he wakes up each morning. I'd be willing to bet that he had no clue what he was wearing but didn't want to look ignorant to its meaning so he gave a non-answer.
Yes, I believe Jay Z picks out his clothes. He even said the medallion had meaning to him. So your defense is that's he's stupid?
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Old 05-03-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 65,358,168 times
Reputation: 22274
Why is it surprising to folks that a black man hates white people?

Is it surprising when an Saudi Muslim hates an Israeli Jew or a Christian (of any color?)

People gonna hate.

Jay Z has made a career with music that reeks of hate towards white people - disparaging them, dissing them, mocking them. He gets his revenge every time white folks ante up to buy his sh$t.

There is lots of hate towards white America from black America out there. And there is lots of hate from white America towards black America, as well.

White people just get upset about being hated b/c white people can't call black people out as racists - b/c supposedly the "definition" of a racist is hatred against a minority.

However, in many cities across this country, the racial make up is nearly 50:50.

Racism is racism. Hate is hate.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: SouthEast
166 posts, read 157,138 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
You can't be flipping serious. A lot of times I get frustrated with posts, but it is rare I get angry. Do you not realize that black families have never had as much as 6% of the assets of white families? NEVER. White privilege isn't some made up thing, it's an empirical reality. If a country systematically subordinates an entire group of people for 300 years and it turns out that a lot of those people are extremely poor... well, that seems obvious.

Well, guess what? 45 years of half-assed affirmative action and housing projects hasn't undone even a tiny sliver of what was done. Black neighborhoods are still segregated because whenever black groups start "movin' on up", white people "move on out" and it occurs with just as much statistical regularity as it did in the 1960s.

One analogy that comes to mind: There are two football teams, one was given by force of law the best nutritionists, scores of the newest weight machines, advanced computer metrics which can plot out the highest-probability plays in all scenarios, personal trainers, psychologists, and a dozen assistant coaches. The other was legally restricted to using only two rusting Nautilus machines, an old paper playbook of the Wishbone formation, some table scraps, and a junior high field to practice on. They are then scheduled to play each other. Your idea seems to be as long as the *referees* aren't paid off, it's a totally fair and equal game.

Well, that's bunk. White people, and I am as white as can be (even my NAME is White), continue to benefit in every aspect of life simply by being white. Who is hiring? White people. Who holds all the economic power? White people. Who are the judges, the lawyers, the cops? White people. You just need to admit that it's real, that there are whole neighborhoods of kids that will grow up unable to compete for jobs, etc.. because the lingering effects of racism have barely even been addressed.

And it's more than just paying money to the tune of Trillions of dollars or engaging in even more robust Affirmative Action, it would require a whole new macrosocial understanding of how racism doesn't disappear because people are colorblind. Racism is about institutions and economic structures, not words.

I had a long response typed up for the nonsense posted above but its no use. You are free to believe this if you want but that does not make it true.
You have chosen to confuse race with culture.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:55 PM
 
204 posts, read 245,159 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
You can't be flipping serious. A lot of times I get frustrated with posts, but it is rare I get angry. Do you not realize that black families have never had as much as 6% of the assets of white families? NEVER. White privilege isn't some made up thing, it's an empirical reality. If a country systematically subordinates an entire group of people for 300 years and it turns out that a lot of those people are extremely poor... well, that seems obvious.

Well, guess what? 45 years of half-assed affirmative action and housing projects hasn't undone even a tiny sliver of what was done. Black neighborhoods are still segregated because whenever black groups start "movin' on up", white people "move on out" and it occurs with just as much statistical regularity as it did in the 1960s.

One analogy that comes to mind: There are two football teams, one was given by force of law the best nutritionists, scores of the newest weight machines, advanced computer metrics which can plot out the highest-probability plays in all scenarios, personal trainers, psychologists, and a dozen assistant coaches. The other was legally restricted to using only two rusting Nautilus machines, an old paper playbook of the Wishbone formation, some table scraps, and a junior high field to practice on. They are then scheduled to play each other. Your idea seems to be as long as the *referees* aren't paid off, it's a totally fair and equal game.

Well, that's bunk. White people, and I am as white as can be (even my NAME is White), continue to benefit in every aspect of life simply by being white. Who is hiring? White people. Who holds all the economic power? White people. Who are the judges, the lawyers, the cops? White people. You just need to admit that it's real, that there are whole neighborhoods of kids that will grow up unable to compete for jobs, etc.. because the lingering effects of racism have barely even been addressed.

And it's more than just paying money to the tune of Trillions of dollars or engaging in even more robust Affirmative Action, it would require a whole new macrosocial understanding of how racism doesn't disappear because people are colorblind. Racism is about institutions and economic structures, not words.
Why are Blacks over jumped by poor and un-educated immigrants that don't speak English?
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:57 PM
 
204 posts, read 245,159 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Why is it surprising to folks that a black man hates white people?

Is it surprising when an Saudi Muslim hates an Israeli Jew or a Christian (of any color?)

People gonna hate.

Jay Z has made a career with music that reeks of hate towards white people - disparaging them, dissing them, mocking them. He gets his revenge every time white folks ante up to buy his sh$t.

There is lots of hate towards white America from black America out there. And there is lots of hate from white America towards black America, as well.

White people just get upset about being hated b/c white people can't call black people out as racists - b/c supposedly the "definition" of a racist is hatred against a minority.

However, in many cities across this country, the racial make up is nearly 50:50.

Racism is racism. Hate is hate.
Very telling that the President of the country repeatedly invites him to the White House

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Old 05-03-2014, 07:36 PM
 
460 posts, read 393,396 times
Reputation: 1091
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbye_hello View Post
Why are Blacks over jumped by poor and un-educated immigrants that don't speak English?
Actually, Hispanics (if that is what you mean) are about as poor as blacks. Assets per household are identical between the groups.

But, even more than that, the cycle of poverty, the housing segregation, etc... persists. It's not as if each new generation of kids start with a fresh slate. I just don't get the attitude that cleaves a child's upbringing from who they end up being. Breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty would require an investment so far above what we are apparently willing to do that I have no hope it will change. But the longer people make half-assed efforts at affirmative action or welfare, the more that right-wing talking points can pretend it has failed. It's like a car that stalls at the bottom of a high hill; if you push it a little bit, it's going to roll back each time. You need one sustained burst of intense energy to solve things, and we haven't even come close.

This is both to you and (moreso) to the person above me, talking about culture. How do you think that culture, to the degree it exists came about, huh? If a whole discretely identifiable subset of people are impoverished and kept from any chance at a better life or even decent education, why wouldn't an anti-intellectual and distrustful subculture spring up? What other mode of self-preservation would there be? I mean, if you have no political or economic power, why would you continue to respect any aspect of the power culture? There is no Grand Poobah of Blackness who gives out an instruction sheet, as much as some white people seem to think so. It's an organic problem that has no clear solution, but you can be damn sure that the cause can be traced to institutional racism.

Why would that "culture" disappear when all the white people who made their money in a system that didn't allow black people to compete... take their money out to the suburbs and ensure that the inner-cities remain poor? If all the capital flees from a city, how are people now lacking capital bootstraps to "lift themselves out". The only cities that have a heavily mixed population and do okay are the ones where both the segregated neighborhoods and white/Asian neighborhoods remain within city limits and keep the tax revenue up.
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:02 PM
 
204 posts, read 245,159 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhitegocubs View Post
Actually, Hispanics (if that is what you mean) are about as poor as blacks. Assets per household are identical between the groups.

But, even more than that, the cycle of poverty, the housing segregation, etc... persists. It's not as if each new generation of kids start with a fresh slate. I just don't get the attitude that cleaves a child's upbringing from who they end up being. Breaking the cycle of intergenerational poverty would require an investment so far above what we are apparently willing to do that I have no hope it will change. But the longer people make half-assed efforts at affirmative action or welfare, the more that right-wing talking points can pretend it has failed. It's like a car that stalls at the bottom of a high hill; if you push it a little bit, it's going to roll back each time. You need one sustained burst of intense energy to solve things, and we haven't even come close.

This is both to you and (moreso) to the person above me, talking about culture. How do you think that culture, to the degree it exists came about, huh? If a whole discretely identifiable subset of people are impoverished and kept from any chance at a better life or even decent education, why wouldn't an anti-intellectual and distrustful subculture spring up? What other mode of self-preservation would there be? I mean, if you have no political or economic power, why would you continue to respect any aspect of the power culture? There is no Grand Poobah of Blackness who gives out an instruction sheet, as much as some white people seem to think so. It's an organic problem that has no clear solution, but you can be damn sure that the cause can be traced to institutional racism.

Why would that "culture" disappear when all the white people who made their money in a system that didn't allow black people to compete... take their money out to the suburbs and ensure that the inner-cities remain poor? If all the capital flees from a city, how are people now lacking capital bootstraps to "lift themselves out". The only cities that have a heavily mixed population and do okay are the ones where both the segregated neighborhoods and white/Asian neighborhoods remain within city limits and keep the tax revenue up.
I meant latinos, asians or even middle easterners. Blacks have generations in this country which is a huge advantage. My parents immigrated with 0 spoken English and 2 kids but thru hard work and sacrifice now own their own home, both children attended college.

To me it's not about a mass conspiracy to hold 13% (Blacks) population down. Blacks are unwilling to make the needed sacrifices because they fall back on excuses like "Slavery 150 years ago and the White mans system". I remember seeing Mexican kids dropped off at school by their father who had a lawnmower in the truck bed. I have a hard time imagining a Black american doing that sort of work for their family. The big elephant in the room is family structure. Time for Blacks in America to turn off the Rap & Sports and sacrifice. The most stereotypical people I've met on this globe are Black Americans. So materialistic, so centered on entertainment. As my Black Professor stated "Go to the ghetto and you will notice something, people wearing the hippest clothes, listening to the newest music, driving cars with new rims". It's simple minded ideals.
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:30 AM
 
Location: SouthEast
166 posts, read 157,138 times
Reputation: 342
Culture and its influance is what most often dictates an individuals eventual position.
As for the reasons for that culture to exist in the first place you cannot simply put the blame on race as you are so willing to do. If that were the case we would still have an underclass of Irish, Asians and Latinos. Imigrants, black imigrants at that, come to this country and are middle class within a year.

There are still people alive today that were incarcerated for their race by the US gov. Asians during WW2. Their culture demands success, starting with gradeschool. They are doing just fine.

I see a semi permanent class of poor here in Appalachia where I live with poor white trash. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the culture of not caring about the same things that make others succeed. It starts with drugs and alcohol, no desire to finish school or further their education and they end up poor white trash. It is its very own subculture that places no value on things that will make one succeed.

Here is the truth. You can pontificate all day about race and instituionalism. The simple fact is that regardless of race you will recieve benefits and wealth based on what you bring to the table economically. It has nothing to do with the worth of a person as an individual. It is about what you bring to the table that is beneficial economically. If your 'culture' is one that doesnt provide much, expect to be treated accordingly. You can like it or hate it but its as sure as a law of physics. Money and capital will go where it is welcomed and treated well regardless of race or ethnicity.

Lastly, money and capital are not what is needed to fix the problem. Those are the rewards at the end, not the beginning. Education and a desire to succeed are the tinder that will light the fire that will lift any person of any culture, of any race out of poverty. Those things can't be purchased by any amount of money, they are instilled through parents and a community. bad schools? Pfft, Abraham Lincoln taught himself by candle light. He did ok. If someone wants to learn, they'll find a way. My 8 year old son loves WWE wrestling (which I dont particularly care for) and he can tell you names, ages, how many titles they have held. This shows me 2 things. 1: If its something that kids and young adults really like they'll learn it on their own and 2: If my son is smart enough to learn all that wrestling crap on his own there is no excuse for him not to get a %100 every week on his spelling and math tests. I remind him of this almost every day and will instill in him that education is key. The teachers and schools may suck but its my job to teach them, the childs job to learn and the schools are just a tool to that end. Blaming race is the easy way out and smacks of laziness.
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:49 AM
 
Location: SouthEast
166 posts, read 157,138 times
Reputation: 342
Just to further simplify this argument. Asians were discriminated against a great deal, the extent of which is much less well known(or pubilcized). The civil rights act is seen today as benefiting blacks but it eliminated many of the same issues against asians. See Takao Ozawa v. United States.
Voting rights, marriage rules, employment and property rights were issues that they had to deal with. Why do they not show any of the long lasting effects of racism like other cultures? They suffered institutionalized racism for over a century.
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