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Old 05-08-2014, 11:26 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,624 posts, read 3,165,969 times
Reputation: 3948

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
If the CEO of McDonalds, who makes 13 million/year, donated his entire paycheck to the 440,000 employees of McDonalds, it would amount to 30 dollars/years for each employee.
Clearly, you have not identified the problem.
The problem is that the entire discipline of economics is faith-based. It is not a science which is why you won't find economics being taught in the math and sciences departments of very many universities. It is a social and psychological issue.

There really isn't a concrete reason why prices keep skyrocketing every year. Supply and demand is a figment of our imagination. We could sell goods at the same price whether they are rare or common. There is no immutable law of physics that causes prices to go up all by themselves.

The point I'm trying to make here is that our current economic model is like Frankenstein's Monster, an entity that has taken on a life its own. Now, we are ruled by economics rather than having economics work for us. Today, as I've said elsewhere, it's about short-term profits, keeping the shareholders happy, trying to sell the shoddiest goods at the highest possible price, and coming up with ingenious schemes to keep the money flowing from the poor to the rich.

Our economy was strongest when you didn't need a first rate science education from a top-notch school to get a job that pays more than $30k per year. Hell, you practically need a four-year degree to get a job anywhere these days because the desperation has allowed employers to raise the qualifications bar so high that the average welfare recipient is out of the game completely. In cities, you can't even get a job at McDonald's in certain places unless you're bilingual (and Spanish-speaking immigrants willing to work for a low wage are not that hard to come by).

Now you have almost 50% of the working population too poor to even pay income tax. In order to live in a First World nation we have to pay First World taxes - that's the trade-off. But because people are getting ever more poor, tax revenue will fall off - and that means roads do not get fixed, bridges do not get repaired, libraries and schools close, our soldiers fight wars with defective and obsolete equipment, police protection fails, and a hundred other things that most of us take for granted.

People wanting $15/hour flipping burgers is a symptom of a much more fatal disease - that of simple greed. No, I don't mean the greed of the burger flippers. I mean the greed of the money manipulators at the top of the totem pole. With no vision for the future other than to get as rich as possible before the bottom falls out, we're riding the spiral that circles the drain. As long as employers continue adopting the cold, sterile, and soulless corporate culture where people are simple commodities their communities are just bottomless reservoires of workers, well ... the American century is most assuredly over.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:36 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,370 posts, read 2,655,606 times
Reputation: 3824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
If the CEO of McDonalds, who makes 13 million/year, donated his entire paycheck to the 440,000 employees of McDonalds, it would amount to 30 dollars/years for each employee.
Clearly, you have not identified the problem.
Such a gesture would up morale in no measurable terms, which could be worth its weight in gold. Far exceeding a $30 per person figure. I guess it'd be too much to ask other upper management to chip in too

The only case I know of where people took pay cuts for the greater good was a case study for... Chrysler where employees were shown the budget to prove that if they don't take a pay cut, the company will go under.

The president of Nintendo took a 50% pay cut to help even out the Wii U's relatively poor sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Most people are incapable of identifying the problems. It's much easier to react to them though, without offering any practical alternative or solution of course.

I find it interesting though... One poster pointed out that we are heavily subsidizing low income workers. We'll we are doing the same with college students. What benefit has that that provided exactly? In both cases, we are getting a very poor return on our investment.

The government is never the answer. They only exacerbate the problem... But alas, many will simply call out for MORE help (if you can call it that) from the government. It's an endless cycle that only leads to bigger, more bloated and inefficient government.
The college student thing will be its own disaster, and perhaps for another thread? If not government, then we don't really have anywhere else to turn to. Corporations? Many believe they're the cause of many of our woes to begin with.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:40 AM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,401,036 times
Reputation: 2167
$15 is the minimum wage in Australia and Australia beats the USA in every quality of life measurement.
However, it won't work in the US. The USA needs to keep the minimum wage as low as it is so that people making $15/hr keep thinking they've got it good.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:40 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,370 posts, read 2,655,606 times
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I believe we're doomed either way....

currently, we are subsidizing a lot of minimum wage folk's benefits and programs. Raise it, and some folks can keep their jobs, but others won't (although I recall many are underemployed anyways ).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Babe_Ruth View Post
Bob, True that brother.. Places like WaWa already use touch screen ordering, which will be the likely replacements for unskilled workers that come mandated at $15 an hour. To me it's sad, bcuz I like the human factor when ordering.. but politics may drive a lot of human beings out of food service.

Something else that seems neglected.. if businesses are compelled to pay entry-level, unskilled labor 15 an hour, that will also mean they'll have to pay all management and their experienced subordinates more. A manager can't be fairly expected to earn the same as their new employees. Large, sudden increases in min. wage could price out a lot of ppl. It will also spike inflation, & diminish the value of the dollar.. In the end, I just see a lot more ppl ending up on public assistance, but maybe that's the real end-game (?)

That's the traceability of 'cause and effect' here? I remember them having those touch screen kiosks since 2000... far before any talks of upping the minimum wage to $15/hr.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
13,888 posts, read 8,841,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easternerDC View Post

In certain cities, I can see $15 being something that would provide more of an actual living wage.

.
Liberal arts majors with 4 years of college and a quarter of million dollars in bills are getting job offers for $15 /hr. How can flipping burgers pay the same? And don't tell me those account temp jobs are going to raise their wages because min wage went up.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:17 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 3,649,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
Liberal arts majors with 4 years of college and a quarter of million dollars in bills are getting job offers for $15 /hr. How can flipping burgers pay the same? And don't tell me those account temp jobs are going to raise their wages because min wage went up.
Where I live, 4 year college grads are entering entry level jobs are earning $11-$13 per hour. I am not arguing that it should be $15 across the board. It depends on the local economy.

However I was pointing out that in a city like Seattle, I saw numerous job postings that offer a salary of $14-$20 per hour for jobs that require a high school diploma + 1 year of work experience.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:57 PM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,362,570 times
Reputation: 19546
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
Corporations? Many believe they're the cause of many of our woes to begin with.
Yes, with all of their "providing products" and "hiring people" mumbo jumbo.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
11,481 posts, read 6,901,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
I've been saying this all along. The $15/hr demand is nothing but a negotiating tactic. Start high, so you can settle for favorable terms. I think this demand group would feel a $10-11/hr min wage across the US would be a success. I personally want to see a $10/hr min wage across the US and see no reason why that can't happen.
And let's not forget that, if by some twist of fate, a union were able to organize fast-food outlets (not likely because the majority of the work force there doesn't stick around too long) a large part of any gain in wages that might arise would quickly be eaten up by union dues (the largest share of which would fall upon the responsible minority who stay put).
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Atlanta Metro
129 posts, read 178,357 times
Reputation: 129
I think no matter what the minimum wage is, automation will continue to progress, as it has throughout our industrial history, so that's already a given. Shirina hit the nail on the head, the real issue is simple greed. Most companies could easily absorb the the difference in pay, it would just mean a little less profit. Thus far, it's been the working poor, and the dwindling middle class, asked to tighten their belts, as if corporations making as much as they can, damn the consequences, is a sacrosanct right, more important than their responsibility to those who bust their butts to help them make those profits, as well as the larger community as a whole. Corporations as "good neighbors" seems to be a faded characteristic, replaced by "greed is good"....

If McDonalds or Wal-Mart really would have such a problem paying a living wage, actually I can't even write that with a straight face, cause they simply wouldn't. At present, we taxpayers subsidize their bottom line, by making up the difference between their low pay, and sustainability, via paying for the gov. assistance they still qualify for (even with full-time jobs), not to mention the government "handouts" (subsidies, tax breaks, grants) given these mammoth profit-makers!

And how can a fast food hamburger joint, in Maine or NH, I saw on 60 Minutes, without the rock-bottom prices McDonald's pays for its supplies, afford to pay its employees $15/hr, and still make a nice profit? The owner now has requests to franchise across the country. And I bet he's doing fine, because his #1 priority is not just how much he takes home, but he also gives a damn about the people who help him do so. I could make more money too, if I paid my band members less money, but I want them to make fair pay, and to be happy when they show up to play...

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level -- I mean the wages of decent living." . . . - Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:30 PM
 
Location: La Mesa Aka The Table
7,205 posts, read 7,594,671 times
Reputation: 8014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
I believe we're doomed either way....

currently, we are subsidizing a lot of minimum wage folk's benefits and programs. Raise it, and some folks can keep their jobs, but others won't (although I recall many are underemployed anyways ).
This^^^^ I kind of disagree with fast food workers making 15 an hour, but I am all for Retail workers and other industries making that much. Some of these big box retailers are making profits hand over fist, yet let there employees live of public assistant, That's bull!
I've all but had it with these Pro Business fox news watchers.
You want cut people on public assistance(I get it,so do I) but yet are willing to give tax cuts to these big retail Business so they can create more low paying jobs.
Sometimes I think you guys Took way to much out of the 80's Movie Wall St. I'm Sorry to inform you that, Greed is Not Good, especially if Our government is paying for Big Businesses Greed.
You Can't have it both ways!
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