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Old 05-15-2014, 10:51 AM
 
5,106 posts, read 6,082,424 times
Reputation: 9677

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Climate change has nothing to do with science. It is faith based. But unlike religion, it does not seek to help people. It seeks to limit freedom, expropriate wealth, destroy the enemy (Capitalism), and destroy the other enemy that generates Capitalism (Freedom).
agree totally

can't rep you for awhile
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:12 PM
 
Location: S. Nevada
852 posts, read 816,287 times
Reputation: 1043
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post


The good news for the flat earthers in Florida is that when the water does rise, it will just spill over the edge.

Problem solved, eh?
Ooooh! Waterfront property *with* a waterfall! Now in defense of the flat earthers in Florida - Florida is *pretty* flat.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,416 posts, read 7,383,417 times
Reputation: 10623
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
I thought Cap and Trade was a vehicle for government corruption, so wouldn't implementing it attract wealth to the US?
It would, but the corruption in 3rd world statist regimes exceeds our corruption by several orders of magnitude. So expropriated wealth seeking the most corrupt container will end up in the Third World. Which explains why the United Nations is headquartered here. At the source of wealth.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:10 PM
 
1,399 posts, read 1,085,825 times
Reputation: 2052
Climate change and global warming have been proven with scientific facts, testing and observation. The only issue still up for debate is whether or not climate change is due to mans impact or the naturally occurring cycles of the earth. A scientist funded by Sunoco will probably tell you it's part of the earths natural cycle whereas a scientist working for the EPA will tell you it's due to industrial pollution.

This is all irrelevant though. IMO it's a question of right vs wrong, good house keeping vs slovenliness. It's a matter of generally trying our best to do right by our fellow man and the earth as a whole. We, as citizens of this planet should not drive gas hogs (unless you absolutely need it for towing, farm work or construction), dump untreated chemicals or biowaste into the oceans and water ways, have construction sites without control measures that aid in eliminating airborne dust and silica etc.....because it the right thing to do. I'm sure the citizens of San Diego dont appreciate it when there are "no swim days" down at La Jolla beach because Tijuana has just dumped thousand of gallons of raw untreated sewage into the ocean. I'm sure the local aquatic life doesnt appreciate it either. I could go on and on with many more examples but the point is, we take care of our water, soil and air because it's the right thing to do, not because of this so called global warming/climate change and the consequences that may or may not come round.

Last edited by HTY483; 05-15-2014 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:57 PM
 
3,531 posts, read 2,182,735 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTY483 View Post
The only issue still up for debate is whether or not climate change is due to mans impact or the naturally occurring cycles of the earth.
This is incorrect; anthropogenic climate change is settled science.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,416 posts, read 7,383,417 times
Reputation: 10623
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTY483 View Post
Climate change and global warming have been proven with scientific facts, testing and observation. The only issue still up for debate is whether or not climate change is due to mans impact or the naturally occurring cycles of the earth. A scientist funded by Sunoco will probably tell you it's part of the earths natural cycle whereas a scientist working for the EPA will tell you it's due to industrial pollution.

This is all irrelevant though. IMO it's a question of right vs wrong, good house keeping vs slovenliness. It's a matter of generally trying our best to do right by our fellow man and the earth as a whole. We, as citizens of this planet should not drive gas hogs (unless you absolutely need it for towing, farm work or construction), dump untreated chemicals or biowaste into the oceans and water ways, have construction sites without control measures that aid in eliminating airborne dust and silica etc.....because it the right thing to do. I'm sure the citizens of San Diego dont appreciate it when there are "no swim days" down at La Jolla beach because Tijuana has just dumped thousand of gallons of raw untreated sewage into the ocean. I'm sure the local aquatic life doesnt appreciate it either. I could go on and on with many more examples but the point is, we take care of our water, soil and air because it's the right thing to do, not because of this so called global warming/climate change and the consequences that may or may not come round.
You are lumping two things together. No one is advocating for profligate pollution. Keeping things basically clean is fine. Companies that don't can be sued if the pollution they are causing violates the private property rights of others.

But the climate change crowd is a whole other ball of wax. They come up with all kinds of statist schemes such as carbon credits to redistribute wealth. Their argument is that the quote unquote developing world, meaning the backward countries, will happily embrace pollution on their way towards modernizing their economies. And we, the modern countries that chose rational economies based on freedom and capitalism, should be forced to hand over our money in perpetuity to these backward countries so that they can develop without polluting, in other words so that they can modernize without the process of development that we all had to pay for. We're supposed to just hand over modern technology, modern methodologies, modern factories, modern technologies, etc. so that they can basically avoid the Industrial Revolution.

Climate change politics is all about stealing from the rich to give to those who want to be rich without having to undergo the effort.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,416 posts, read 7,383,417 times
Reputation: 10623
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
This is incorrect; anthropogenic climate change is settled science.
This is false. Nothing is settled science when the scientists are all from one political orientation and all get paid from the public trough and all have the same anti-Man, anti-Freedom, anti-Capitalist, anti-Corporate, "progressive" redistributive orientation.

AGW is junk science run amok. Just like the scientists who advocated for the Earth being flat thought their science was "settled".

NOTHING IS EVER SETTLED WHEN THE AXES ARE GRINDING.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,718 posts, read 1,533,064 times
Reputation: 5664
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTY483 View Post
Climate change and global warming have been proven with scientific facts, testing and observation.

As was man made global cooling in the mid 1970's. Some of us are old enough to remember that "settled science" that keeps getting unsettled!

Also, for those that have "settled" the science of global warming, what is the "normal" temperature of the earth? What are the "normal" coastlines and sea levels? What is the "normal number of species/bio diversity on the earth at the "normal" temperature? Trends of 3-5 years are different than trends of decades, are different than trends of centuries, are different then trends of eons.

We simply don't know enough about the environment to state with any degree of certaintity what is the "normal" temperature over time. It is this intellectual dishonesty of the global warming proponents that causes me to believe this is a political agenda, not a biological problem.

The only issue still up for debate is whether or not climate change is due to mans impact or the naturally occurring cycles of the earth.

Since Mercury, Venus, and Mars are also experiencing "global warming" in coorellation with the earth's warming trend, my bet is most of global warming is a result of orbit idosynchracies, and sun activity. I am certain man has some amount of impact on the Earth, but am equally certain it is miniscule in the grand scheme.

A scientist funded by Sunoco will probably tell you it's part of the earths natural cycle whereas a scientist working for the EPA will tell you it's due to industrial pollution.

You did not state this above, but it is out there... This assumption that commercial funding is some how suspect, and government funded equals no agenda, tells me people have never worked in the government and are not familiar with the fact that a bereuacrat scorned has real power to absolutely screw with you. I treat BOTH sources as suspicious for different reasons

This is all irrelevant though. IMO it's a question of right vs wrong, good house keeping vs slovenliness. It's a matter of generally trying our best to do right by our fellow man and the earth as a whole. We, as citizens of this planet should not drive gas hogs (unless you absolutely need it for towing, farm work or construction), dump untreated chemicals or biowaste into the oceans and water ways, have construction sites without control measures that aid in eliminating airborne dust and silica etc.....because it the right thing to do. I'm sure the citizens of San Diego dont appreciate it when there are "no swim days" down at La Jolla beach because Tijuana has just dumped thousand of gallons of raw untreated sewage into the ocean. I'm sure the local aquatic life doesnt appreciate it either. I could go on and on with many more examples but the point is, we take care of our water, soil and air because it's the right thing to do, not because of this so called global warming/climate change and the consequences that may or may not come round.

I am sceptical that the man made portion of global warming is the primary driver, and if man's entire impact were eliminated, I am not sure there would be any significant impact on the Earth's global climate (warming or cooling). That having been said, we need to be responsible stewards of our environment. I don't know a single conservative that is pro pollution. Interestingly enough, the wealthiest nations are also the environmentally cleanest.
I am not evil or stupid because I question the integrity of those environmentalists with a political agenda, using alarmist language to affect political changes, and political power dynamics. I would be evil and stupid if I did not!
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:58 PM
 
781 posts, read 567,383 times
Reputation: 1452
Blah blah blah, polysyllabic blah...
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:37 AM
 
3,531 posts, read 2,182,735 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
This is false. Nothing is settled science when the scientists are all from one political orientation and all get paid from the public trough and all have the same anti-Man, anti-Freedom, anti-Capitalist, anti-Corporate, "progressive" redistributive orientation.

AGW is junk science run amok. Just like the scientists who advocated for the Earth being flat thought their science was "settled".

NOTHING IS EVER SETTLED WHEN THE AXES ARE GRINDING.
I'm pretty sure everything in this post is completely wrong, and it's definitely unsubstantiated.
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