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Old 05-13-2014, 09:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,668 posts, read 28,551,950 times
Reputation: 14606

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I am a "global warming skeptic" but even if you aren't a skeptic do you really want to:

1. pay drastically more for your energy?
2. pay 3rd world countries $100 billion plus dollars annually (I believe that's what they want, a large portion funded by USA) to help them deal with climate change?

one problem is that even if you are a believer, you may not favor the drastic actions that corrupt politicians will enact if you offer them your support.
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Old 05-13-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: oHIo
613 posts, read 569,748 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
You're right Mr. Ten Cat: It is unstoppable.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/32670477-post5.html
That's Ms Ten Cat

And Chasing Ice is on my to watch list. I'm sure it will be one of the scariest horror movies I have ever seen
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:04 AM
 
3,529 posts, read 2,172,235 times
Reputation: 2636
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
I am a "global warming skeptic" but even if you aren't a skeptic do you really want to:

1. pay drastically more for your energy?
2. pay 3rd world countries $100 billion plus dollars annually (I believe that's what they want, a large portion funded by USA) to help them deal with climate change?

one problem is that even if you are a believer, you may not favor the drastic actions that corrupt politicians will enact if you offer them your support.
I would be willing to go to great lengths in order to stay alive, yes. But you're acting as though we all have to pile into one giant trillion-person bubble building to survive, rather than just pay a few more cents on the dollar at the gas tank and stop building entire new subdivisions a ten minute drive away every time the current ones get old enough to buy cigarettes.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:07 AM
 
33,134 posts, read 39,067,107 times
Reputation: 28484
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The day/night cycle is not climate change, nor are seasons. There is a difference between weather and climate.

Frank I think you are getting caught up in some very tenuous semantics


Quote:
cli·mate
ˈ

noun: climate; plural noun: climates
the weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period.
Quote:
weath·er
ˈweT͟Hər/
noun
noun: weather
1.
the state of the atmosphere at a place and time as regards heat, dryness, sunshine, wind, rain, etc.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:10 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,668 posts, read 28,551,950 times
Reputation: 14606
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
I would be willing to go to great lengths in order to stay alive, yes. But you're acting as though we all have to pile into one giant trillion-person bubble building to survive, rather than just pay a few more cents on the dollar at the gas tank and stop building entire new subdivisions a ten minute drive away every time the current ones get old enough to buy cigarettes.
1. its not a few more cents. Obama is quoted as saying "Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket." im not sure exactly what the cost would be, but it would cost way more than a few cents. also, that hits different people differently. maybe for you, a 30% increase is tolerable but that can make real life changes for a lot of people.

2. even people that believe in climate change don't have to believe its a matter of dying. its only predicted at a few inches over a hundred years or so (predictions have been proven to not be accurate to this point) so most of us would survive.

3. whether or not you favor the hundreds of billions to developing countries and skyrocketing energy prices, supporting the climate change belief is going to make that happen.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:11 AM
 
33,027 posts, read 12,488,458 times
Reputation: 20932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Phillips View Post
When will man know what birds know?
- Carl Sandburg

The overwhelming scientific evidence indicates that global warming is occurring at an accelerated rate caused by hydrocarbon emissions into the atmosphere, and that anthropogenic activity is a significant contributing factor. What we know is that the polar icecaps are melting as evidenced by satellite imagery and decrease in mass verified by physical scientific measurements. We also know that climate change occurs naturally as evidenced by core samples of the earth's surface. However, what we are seeing now is abrupt climate change; which the evidence links to the growth of the earth’s human population and activities over the past 250 years; and, most dramatically, in the last half century. What we know is that there is only a thin layer of ozone that shields the earth from the sun’s rays; and that it is being depleted by industrial emissions into the atmosphere resulting in the rise of the ocean temperature that generates the earth’s climate conditions. Just a small change in ocean temperature will affect the thermohaline conveyor leading to more harsh winter weather, reduced soil moisture and more intense winds in regions that provide the significant portion of the world’s food production, and cause a dramatic decrease in the human carrying capacity of the earth’s environment. Even the Pentagon (hardly a bastion for environmental activism) acknowledges the fact of global warming and its threat to national security interests.

The global warming deniers have succeeding in politicizing the issue, and they are wrong for the true test of science is empirical evidence - not political correctness. The fact that there not complete consensus of opinion is inapposite. See Article: " The cold truth about climate change" by Joseph Romm, Salon (February 27, 2008 at The cold truth about climate change - Salon.com

As Dr. Romm put it: "What matters is scientific findings - data, not opinions."
Did you see John Oliver's bit recently on how silly this opinion versus fact business is. Do we take a poll on whether 5 is bigger than 15? Do owls exist?

We know climate change exists and at an ever increasing rate. The challenge is figuring out what to do.
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:12 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,004,907 times
Reputation: 1399
Ms. Ten Cat: Chasing Ice is an "eye opener"- in high-definition. If "a picture is worth a thousand words", this film stands a trillion!
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,073,320 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
Obama is quoted as saying "Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket."
Anyone who thinks that the president of the United States would purposely harm American citizens should really seek help no matter what party they represent. My guess is this so called "quote" is a fabricated lie, half truth, or otherwise fabrication that can't be documented by any respected journalist in America.

As a young man, I thought Nixon was pure evil. As a mature adult, I think he was an introvert who really thought he was doing the right thing. People do grow up and become more critical thinkers, but the real scary part is that some do not!
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: NJ
22,668 posts, read 28,551,950 times
Reputation: 14606
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Anyone who thinks that the president of the United States would purposely harm American citizens should really seek help no matter what party they represent. My guess is this so called "quote" is a fabricated lie, half truth, or otherwise fabrication that can't be documented by any respected journalist in America.
this quote isnt something new. do a search and you can see it on youtube. of course, he has walked back that line since he became president but the goal still remains. why are you kidding yourself anyway? you know that climate changers want to stop using fossil fuels now and you know that would cost a drastic price increase. also, the whole cap and trade program would cause increases in prices. so you are you pretending otherwise?
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Old 05-13-2014, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,073,320 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
this quote isnt something new. do a search and you can see it on youtube. of course, he has walked back that line since he became president but the goal still remains. why are you kidding yourself anyway? you know that climate changers want to stop using fossil fuels now and you know that would cost a drastic price increase. also, the whole cap and trade program would cause increases in prices. so you are you pretending otherwise?
I would say I support cap and trade policy as part of the clean air act signed by Nixon, and HW Bush? do you have a problem with it?
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