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Old 05-23-2014, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,076,201 times
Reputation: 4997

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
Seems to be a very correct assumption given your stance on the matter. The people who hate guns and want to ban them are the first to latch onto SWAT and police officers, screaming and begging to be saved, when sh** actually goes down around them.

Up until that point they are convinced guns are evil and of no use. How quickly that changes.
Yes, like the anti gun teacher here in Reno that went toward the student to protect others. He gave his life to protect others so you can make generalizations about others without any merit or fact.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:42 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47449
we have a lot of armed robbery here.
it is disturbing that the people that read this thread are not concerned about armed robbery but are most concerned about use of force to repel armed robberies. the right of patrons and business owners to defend themselves has been violated. the violence, including the violence done to the employees, we are assured "were not seriously injured", seems to have been ignored.
try to follow me on this, no one, no one, has the right to come into a restaurant throw you on the floor and rob you.
anybody that posts to that effect is probably a felon.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:01 AM
 
5,574 posts, read 5,535,320 times
Reputation: 16468
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
I was being sarcastic, but point well made. More guns is like justifying rape, because of a short skirt.
Apologies. I didn't pick up on the sarcasm.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:06 AM
 
5,445 posts, read 4,395,755 times
Reputation: 14992
Here is my thought. Lets say there were 3 customers in the restaurant that carried guns. What do we think would have happened? Either the same robbery would have occurred with no change in outcome, guns would have been drawn and possibly the robbers would have been thwarted, or there would have been a shootout and who knows how many people would have been injured or killed. Or another thought, the legal gun owners would have been robbed of their guns and now there are more guns on the streets in the hands of criminals.

The shootout scenario is what scares me. Majority of robberies come and go. The robbers get the money and nobody gets hurt. The key thing there is nobody gets hurt. You add a hot head with a CCW into the mix who is generally untrained in high stress life/death scenarios and people WILL get hurt.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:17 AM
 
8,402 posts, read 19,532,509 times
Reputation: 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
I was being sarcastic, but point well made. More guns is like justifying rape, because of a short skirt.
It's nothing like justifying rape. There is no analogy there.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:19 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,562 posts, read 3,132,544 times
Reputation: 3920
The problem I see in discussions such as this one is that the "arm everyone" camp always assumes that issues concerning gun crime will ALWAYS involve only two or three people and the criminal can be clearly identified.

But one day, perhaps soon, there will be a situation like the Aurora movie theater shooting. Only this time, multiple theater patrons will be armed - because everyone carrying a gun is a lot safer.

You know what will happen? Something like this:

The criminal shoots his first victim. Patrons begin to panic slightly - everyone gets up out of their seats and heads for one of the exits. Those who are armed draw their weapons.

Someone down the aisle sees a person with a gun, thinks its the original shooter, and drops the innocent guy who was just trying to protect his family.

A third armed person sees the second guy shoot the first guy and blows HIM away thinking HE'S actually the shooter - and now he's targeting other people with guns! Meanwhile full-blown panic ensues because three people have been killed - and blam, a fourth person drops, a victim of the actual criminal. Panicked themselves and with little training, both armed civilians turn to face the direction of the shot, sees a guy with a cellphone, but in the gloom of the theater think its a gun and fires at him. One shot misses and kills some kid who just happened to get in the way, the other shot drops the innocent with the cellphone.

The criminal, who is out in the hall shooting patrons as they squeeze out of the theater in a blind panic, kills two or three more people, blocking the door with bodies. The patrons turn and head for a different exit. Meanwhile, some guy who was taking a leak comes out of the restroom and sees the killer, pulls his gun -- and is immediately cut down by the cops because they think HE'S the one shooting into the crowd. Oh yeah, the killer then says he was just a concerned citizen with a gun ... and phew, good thing you shot the bad guy (he nods to the innocent guy who just came out of the restroom) because I didn't even see him coming. Sure officer, I'll be happy to give you my statement now ...
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:23 AM
 
Location: The Carolinas
1,987 posts, read 1,903,046 times
Reputation: 6010
Shirina, you should write screenplays!
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Wake County, NC
2,983 posts, read 3,632,556 times
Reputation: 3503
Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
Here is my thought. Lets say there were 3 customers in the restaurant that carried guns. What do we think would have happened? Either the same robbery would have occurred with no change in outcome, guns would have been drawn and possibly the robbers would have been thwarted, or there would have been a shootout and who knows how many people would have been injured or killed. Or another thought, the legal gun owners would have been robbed of their guns and now there are more guns on the streets in the hands of criminals.

The shootout scenario is what scares me. Majority of robberies come and go. The robbers get the money and nobody gets hurt. The key thing there is nobody gets hurt. You add a hot head with a CCW into the mix who is generally untrained in high stress life/death scenarios and people WILL get hurt.
This.

I guess if the kitchen workers had been carrying(while working) they could have possibly thwarted the three armed robbers who took them by surprise. Or maybe one of the patrons being evacuated to safety could have stormed the kitchen with his gun drawn and have a shootout with the robbers while all the employees are stuck in the crossfire.

Sometimes logic escapes the gun nuts.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Upstate NY
30,405 posts, read 9,086,867 times
Reputation: 28951
Quote:
Originally Posted by apexgds View Post
You assume that I've never been in a situation that involves guns. I still don't want to carry and don't want to be around them.

Yeah, well guess what? I do on both counts. Except that this little girl can see the difference between "being around" guns carried by licensed owners and those brandished by criminals.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:57 AM
 
7,903 posts, read 3,726,695 times
Reputation: 10388
Something I notice far too often is that the race of the suspects was not mentioned by the reporter. While they could be of any race since "hoodies" are not the exclusive clothing of blacks, you have to wonder why their description was given in approximate age, height, and weight, but no race
Granted they were apparently wearing masks, but in most cases you can tell what a persons basic race is.
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