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Old 05-23-2014, 02:35 PM
 
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Housing Preservation and Development Commissioner Vicki Been said the plan to build 80,000 new affordable apartments and preserve 120,000 units would create a more diverse city.


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Read more: City plans to attack economic segregation by moving poor into middle-class neighborhoods, richer into poverty spots - NY Daily News
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:04 PM
 
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I don't know about this. Why GIVE some people affordable homes in better neighborhoods? Isn't that part of the "let me git dat" problem that makes people unmotivated to earn things?

Lets face it, the middle and upper class want to separate themselves from those that languish in poverty. Moving these people into better neighborhoods will likely lower property values and raise crime which will cause the wealthy to move somewhere else. If those with money wanted diversity, they would volunteer to move to poorer areas.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
I don't know about this. Why GIVE some people affordable homes in better neighborhoods? Isn't that part of the "let me git dat" problem that makes people unmotivated to earn things?

Lets face it, the middle and upper class want to separate themselves from those that languish in poverty. Moving these people into better neighborhoods will likely lower property values and raise crime which will cause the wealthy to move somewhere else. If those with money wanted diversity, they would volunteer to move to poorer areas.
That's odd, because for most of American urban development up until the early 20th century (particularly in those cities with a significant black population), the relatively poor servant class either lived in rear alley dwellings behind wealthy homes or lived in the same home as the wealthy families altogether. I recommend you read 'Not in My Neighborhood: How Bigotry Shaped a Great American City,' by Antero Pietila about Baltimore and "Economic Growth and Neighborhood Discontent: System Bias in the Urban Renewal Program of Atlanta" by Clarence Stone.

The nonsense of "people wanting to live with their own kind" was a revisionist trope invented in the post-Civil Rights Era. "Jim Crow" segregation in large urban areas simply did not exist until the 1910s. Much of the rear alley and tenant housing was cleared out of cities by the 1960s in an attempt to retain white populations from completely bleeding to the suburbs. But in a city such a New Orleans that had a more complex economic and racial caste system you can still see remnants of this tenant/servant housing in the midst of wealthier quarters. They fetch a pretty healthy price as they are now considered "charming".

http://imagesus.homeaway.com/mda01/e...b3e8a82c7.1.12

There is an extensive precedent of wealthier populations in cities living within close proximity to the poor. It could be argued that it was only a 50-year span between the 1960s-2000s that this did not occur. Gentrification seems to be reversing this trend.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:58 PM
 
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^I am sure advancements in transportation also had an impact on the movement of the rich further away from those who provide the services. Prior to the 20th century, it probably wasn't feasible to have your helpers living a considerable distance from your home.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se View Post
^I am sure advancements in transportation also had an impact on the movement of the rich further away from those who provide the services. Prior to the 20th century, it probably wasn't feasible to have your helpers living a considerable distance from your home.
Exactly. Americans have migrated to suburbs - some drive in to the city from as far as 2 hours away. Why do they do that? Maybe it's quieter, safer with better schools? Virtually everyone has a car now and they're more reliable than they've ever been...no more long, hot, stinky and bumpy wagon rides.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se View Post
^I am sure advancements in transportation also had an impact on the movement of the rich further away from those who provide the services. Prior to the 20th century, it probably wasn't feasible to have your helpers living a considerable distance from your home.
It never was feasible. New York can be proactive because it has always been high density and walkable (particularly Manhattan) with an extensive mass transit network. The boroughs have a larger population than ever before. But there is really not much middle-class housing; either you are fairly wealthy or live in NYCHA residences.

Metro Washington DC. Unlike, NYC, its suburbs are overwhelmingly low-density. fixed-Rail Mass transit, while the 2nd most used in the US after NYC, does not have extensive coverage at all. Fairfax, Loudoun, and Montgomery Counties (to name just a few) are among the wealthiest in all of the United States. There really isn't any place affordable for teachers, nurses, police officers, fire department personnel, etc. to live in these counties much less minimum wage workers. NYC is attempting to remedy this issue before it brings the service industries to a screeching halt.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Steelers10 View Post
There really isn't any place affordable for teachers, nurses, police officers, fire department personnel, etc. to live in these counties much less minimum wage workers. NYC is attempting to remedy this issue before it brings the service industries to a screeching halt.
But this article says: "The City plans to attack economic segregation in its affordable housing plan — placing the poor in middle-class neighborhoods" -- teachers, nurses, police, etc, aren't exactly poor. When I think poor, I'm thinking people with kids living on <$12k while being subsidized by the government (food stamps, affordable housing, free Obamacare, free school food for kids, etc.).
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Allendale MI
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Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
But this article says: "The City plans to attack economic segregation in its affordable housing plan placing the poor in middle-class neighborhoods" -- teachers, nurses, police, etc, aren't exactly poor. When I think poor, I'm thinking people with kids living on <$12k while being subsidized by the government (food stamps, affordable housing, free Obamacare, free school food for kids, etc.).
Maybe seeing people doing better than them every day will get them to be better.
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Old 05-25-2014, 03:03 AM
 
11,409 posts, read 6,461,099 times
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Originally Posted by Michigantown View Post
Maybe seeing people doing better than them every day will get them to be better.
Maybe, but it may also make those that earned their spot in life suffer for no reason. I say move some of these people into the neighborhoods where these policy makers live - let's see if they really support it.
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Old 05-25-2014, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,146 posts, read 15,951,276 times
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Originally Posted by Michigantown View Post
Maybe seeing people doing better than them every day will get them to be better.
LOL ... yeah, right! Or maybe it will just make them resent those who are doing better even more?

People who've come up through generations of entitlement and welfare programs aren't going to suddenly become motivated just because they're living next door to someone who's middle class. It's far more complicated than that.
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