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Old 05-24-2014, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,170,230 times
Reputation: 4997

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
That 50% number is bogus, and you know it. According to a National Institute of Justice (DOJ) study, only 2 percent of criminal guns come from gun shows.

And it really doesn't matter how many of the people with tables are gun shows have FFLs, because in California, all firearms sales including private and gun show sales, transfers or loans, must go through a California licensed firearms dealer. So there is no legal "private sale" of any firearm to a Californian.


Not sure how California could make their laws any stricter. Sarah Brady consistently ranks California #1 for extreme gun control.
Keep your pants on, and comprehend the thread first. You might want too read the ATF report following the gun. Also, Californians only have to drive to Nevada to buy anything the want at a gun show which is what I said in the first place. The ATF report found 46% of sales at gun shows involved felons. This is a documented fact.

I blame today's incident on mental health (or lack of) in America. However, we can reduce firearm violence if we put citizens ahead of profits. However, we they can buy sheeple to support their cause the citizens lose. Did I mention I have guns?
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:59 PM
 
10,354 posts, read 7,669,124 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molli View Post
The press is reporting that his family did in fact see this and went to the police and reported it. The police interviewed this monster and he apparently passed the interview with an A+. There really wasn't anything the police could do at that point without more info.
The police could have searched his home; it was full of guns and ammo. He writes about the incident in his manifesto. He himself says that if only the police had searched his home they would have found all that stuff and known something wasn't right.

The police already had info. He had tried to push a bunch of partiers off of a 10-foot ledge, and instead ended up being pushed off the ledge himself, and broke his leg.

In his manifesto he relates a conversation he had with a friend, in which the friend warned him not to do anything "rash" based on stuff that Elliot was saying. Elliot lied and said he wasn't going to do anything.

So there were warning signs.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:02 PM
 
10,354 posts, read 7,669,124 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Keep your pants on, and comprehend the thread first. You might want too read the ATF report following the gun. Also, Californians only have to drive to Nevada to buy anything the want at a gun show which is what I said in the first place. The ATF report found 46% of sales at gun shows involved felons. This is a documented fact.

I blame today's incident on mental health (or lack of) in America. However, we can reduce firearm violence if we put citizens ahead of profits. However, we they can buy sheeple to support their cause the citizens lose. Did I mention I have guns?
He had tons of mental health counselling and support. He saw psychiatrists and counsellors. He had special counsellors, young males and females near his own age, who were paid to go out and socialize with him --as he called them 'paid friends' --- to work on his socializing skills.

He had parents who seemed to care, doting grand-parents, a younger brother who adored him (who he also had planned to kill).

It's really hard to say that anyone dropped the ball, except maybe for the police when they did that home visit.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,170,230 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
He had tons of mental health counselling and support. He saw psychiatrists and counsellors. He had special counsellors, young males and females near his own age, who were paid to go out and socialize with him --as he called them 'paid friends' --- to work on his socializing skills.

He had parents who seemed to care, doting grand-parents, a younger brother who adored him (who he also had planned to kill).

It's really hard to say that anyone dropped the ball, except maybe for the police when they did that home visit.
Good information, so how did the system fail? Why did he have firearms? Why was he allowed firearms considering a well documented mental health issue?
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:28 PM
 
10,354 posts, read 7,669,124 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Good information, so how did the system fail? Why did he have firearms? Why was he allowed firearms considering a well documented mental health issue?
I don't think the system failed, except the police on that home visit.

The only people not allowed guns on mental health reasons are those who have been involuntarily committed---that's my understanding. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe his family could have intervened more, but on the other hand he already had received mental health counselling. So I don't know.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:37 PM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,059,321 times
Reputation: 2250
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post

I just can't believe this. I saw in the news last night and then read about it on my phone today. This is the craziest happening ever and actually is more inclined to be in the psychology forum. This guy never asked anyone out, never kissed anyone, never MADE an attempt or RISK to be right or wrong-- then justified that he would be turned down by women if doing so, as in a forward type of thinking sense.. and then makes a tape and goes completely off the next day..

My question is that he was really answering his own questions before the shooting! What girl ( that is human) would want to go out with a guy with this kind of mind? He was unapproachable and never approached anyone else for a thousand OTHER excuses in his head, other than he was seriously mentally off.. So, he really knew this in the beginning and dissed everyone and anyone for not going out with him.. but that wasn't the problem. He made that the problem..

I feel terrible for the families of the victims and wish my condolences. I just have NEVER seen such backwards thinking, in order to produce a false or delusional solution that has nothing to do with the actual problem. Christ! I am dumbfounded. Sheesh, he was in college too. Where is the education here? I could understand this better if this guy was poor or uneducated-- but this dude drove a BMW. Really?

I do understand that what a person drives or levels of education does not constitute mental illness.. but this is just crazy.. I am just lost for words ( seriously) so, he makes a freaking tape.. when everything he said on that tape has nothing to do with the problem. I am still dumbfounded..

Last edited by thegreenflute334; 05-24-2014 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
4,240 posts, read 3,482,243 times
Reputation: 5900
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I wonder if California doesn't have gun laws prohibiting guns on college campuses? Even Texas has gun laws prohibiting guns on campuses.
No matter if they have these laws it isn't going to stop a wacko from coming on a campus with a gun because he won't care about any laws. Now if you are talking about campus police that is a different issue.
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:44 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
11,104 posts, read 18,195,725 times
Reputation: 7704
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Good information, so how did the system fail? Why did he have firearms? Why was he allowed firearms considering a well documented mental health issue?
I don't know but that blame has nothing to do with the NRA yet who is the one getting any blame?, the NRA is by the media and parents. That, is why I injected slander towards liberals.

As far as gun shows I have been to countless shows. Yes there are a slight few people who walk around with a sign " for sale" but 99% are registered dealers who call in a back ground check and file paper work as a FFL.

It would be easy to police the shows of wanderers , but how are you going to stop them from selling out of the back of the trunk at the parking lot instead? See the anti's who talk about "gunshow loophole" have no answer for that instead they want to shut down legal gun sales and shows instead. They won't say that is their agenda but when the facts come out their proposed laws do that.

No blame on the knife, or the BMW, or California's failed attempt to regulate the mental signs are being brought up by the media or parents of the victims, instead its the NRA's fault.

But when they mention "not one more!, ban guns!" Who is expendable then in the grand scheme? What if this psycho who couldn't get laid had decided to rape and beat to death those women instead, is it acceptable that women get raped when maybe they could have defended themselves with a gun but couldn't have a gun because of gun control laws?
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:49 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,196 posts, read 2,804,580 times
Reputation: 3871
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Good information, so how did the system fail? Why did he have firearms? Why was he allowed firearms considering a well documented mental health issue?
Latest update is that Rodger legally purchased 3 pistols, all legally, all registered to him. So he was fully compliant with California gun laws, laws for Brady gives an "A" grade, laws that are among the strictest in the nation, stricter even than any proposed new Federal laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Keep your pants on, and comprehend the thread first. You might want too read the ATF report following the gun. Also, Californians only have to drive to Nevada to buy anything the want at a gun show which is what I said in the first place. The ATF report found 46% of sales at gun shows involved felons. This is a documented fact.
There is no legal "private sale" of any firearm to a Californian. A Californian who buys any firearm in Nevada is committing a Federal crime, as is the seller. And the news reports say Elliot Rodger complied with all California laws, bought his handgun (and ammo) from a dealer, registered them in his name.


You say "The ATF report found 46% of sales at gun shows involved felons." That's not a documented fact, that's a misleading out-of-context quote from "Following the Gun", itself based on statistics from a 1999 report. More importantly, the 46% number is meaningless. Here's the actual source:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BATFE
Overall, 46.2 percent of the [314] investigations involved a felon associated with selling or purchasing firearms. This percentage was derived From aggregate investigations in which trafficked firearms were recovered from felons; unlicensed dealers’ criminal histories included felony convictions; felons had purchased firearms at gun shows, and a licensed dealer had a convicted felon as an associate .

When only a licensed dealer was the main subject of the investigation, a convicted felon was involved in 6.8 percent (5 of 73) of the investigations as an associate in the trafficking of firearms. When the investigation involved an unlicensed dealer or a former FFL, 25.3 percent (43 of 170) of the investigations revealed that he/she had at least one prior felony conviction.
So the BATFE selected 314 of their own investigations conducted around gun shows, and found that of these investigations, 10.5% involved a felon attempting to purchase a firearm (not 10.5% of all sales, but 10.5% of the case files they reviewed). Because this number isn't scary enough, you decided to go with the 46.2%, a number which is mostly comprised of felons peripherally involved with the seller, not the buyer.

But no, you take it step further, and say "The ATF report found 46% of sales at gun shows involved felons.". That is not a documented fact, that is a lie.

Last edited by Nonesuch; 05-25-2014 at 12:01 AM..
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:54 PM
 
Location: in my mind
4,664 posts, read 6,188,729 times
Reputation: 9257
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I know someone who fits the AS spectrum very well -- he gets invited to parties and out to nightclubs but he is known to get stressed by the noise and will go out and sit in the car to wait for the others to get tired and leave.

He isn't painfully aware of his social deficits -- in his mind, he's the normal one, he doesn't really care what the others are. He commented that he thought he had social anxiety -- and everyone told him "are you just now figuring that out?" but he came to that conclusion because he realized he didn't want to be the life of the party and mostly didn't want to go to parties. Parties and loud social gatherings are what depresses him -- or stresses him, he is fine with very small groups of friends -- like one or two max and then for limited time -- he has projects he prefers to work on.
You are going to try to use your relationship with one AS person to make generalizations about every person who has it?

I'm sorry, but if that is the basis for your thinking on this subject, then your opinions are completely baseless and invalid.
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