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Old 05-25-2014, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,912,020 times
Reputation: 11780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellemint View Post
If you really meant to say blind, that's pretty funny.
I noticed that too........lol. I have always said I'd love to date blind women.
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: California
29,609 posts, read 31,931,623 times
Reputation: 24747
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoenberg3 View Post
This might be a controversial post but I am going to say it anyway:
Perhaps the damage in these events can be lessened if there were no guns involved, but that's missing the real problem at hand (in any case, he killed more people with the knife than with a gun in this incident). Let's look at the social/personal issues that underlie his motivations. Of course the guy had serious mental issues but upon reading most of his 140-page manifesto for last two hours, it is clear that monster in him was a product of an ugly, failed marriage between two very opportunistic and vain people. The British father is money-hungry director in Hollywood while his biological Chinese mother is an opportunistic woman who constantly seeks out new rich men to date and continue her lifestyle. He is, in fact, a product of unplanned pregnancy between these two people whose relationship probably distilled down to pure carnal desire and greed for money. As he is subjected to an ugly divorce and childhood that is bereft of genuine parental care and love, he only knows life as he sees in the glamours yet empty culture of LA -- as measured purely by how much money one has and how much sex one is getting. So when he sees that he is not measuring up to these standards, compounded with identity issues, he undergoes severe depression and resorts to such horrific actions.
I read it just like you did, and don't agree at all. Remember, you are reading the words of a madman so everything is filtered through that. Even then, I don't see his parents as being how you described at all. Yes, they got divorced. Yes, they had some money but he also talks about financial problems all the time too so it was obviously not easy to make a living, it never is. And knowing famous people doesn't make someone opportunistic or vain, some people are famous and they do have friends and that doesn't make anyone horrible. He talks about his mother and WANTS her to marry someone for money, but she doesn't and he's angry about that. He also talks about when he and his mother/father did things together...it seemed like they were normal parents who worried about one of their children and tired to get him to be happy. Like good parents do. They lived through his tantrums, melt downs, crying jags, and they knew he didn't fit in. We worry about our kids who don't fit in and seem weird, we don't usually assume they will go on a rampage. When they saw his videos they called the police, and he's obviously had multiple rounds of therapy. Parent's aren't god's any more than this kid was, we can only do what we know how to do.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:11 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
We worry when our kids don't fit in --- but how do we help them deal with that? When my oldest son would come home complaining he had no friends, I told him that to have a friend you have to be a friend. I told him that he should stop looking at the popular kids who didn't need any more friends, the ones he was trying to fit in who rejected him but look for other kids without friends and ask them about their lives, if they have brothers or sisters, pets, hobbies -- anything. He managed to actually do that and began having all kinds of friends. First some of the more goofy kids that had no friends but then more and more.

That's how most people do it -- if you aren't the top jock or homecoming queen, and you don't fit into some clique, you look around and find people you do fit with, or you don't belong to a clique at all but find a couple people you have as friends.

I doubt this kid ever took an interest in anyone else. He wasn't poor and ugly -- he could have had friends but was too self-absorbed and creepy. I wonder if his parents ever helped him with that.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:18 PM
 
Location: NY
774 posts, read 701,968 times
Reputation: 576
Nobody should ever have to be alone.

Everyone deserves someone and to be with someone, no matter how evil you may be or may have ever been.

Whatever anyone did and murder is always wrong, loneliness and rejection may do horrible things to some people.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:24 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
77 posts, read 101,658 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
I read it just like you did, and don't agree at all. Remember, you are reading the words of a madman so everything is filtered through that. Even then, I don't see his parents as being how you described at all. Yes, they got divorced. Yes, they had some money but he also talks about financial problems all the time too so it was obviously not easy to make a living, it never is. And knowing famous people doesn't make someone opportunistic or vain, some people are famous and they do have friends and that doesn't make anyone horrible. He talks about his mother and WANTS her to marry someone for money, but she doesn't and he's angry about that. He also talks about when he and his mother/father did things together...it seemed like they were normal parents who worried about one of their children and tired to get him to be happy. Like good parents do. They lived through his tantrums, melt downs, crying jags, and they knew he didn't fit in. We worry about our kids who don't fit in and seem weird, we don't usually assume they will go on a rampage. When they saw his videos they called the police, and he's obviously had multiple rounds of therapy. Parent's aren't god's any more than this kid was, we can only do what we know how to do.
Just to retort a little bit: he recounts how his father was always obsessed about "making it big" and how his next movie is going to make him filthy rich; the father is always looking to move into more luxurious houses as soon as he makes a chunk of money from a movie. His second wife clearly didn't really care for the kid and even kicked him out of the house when he was 18. His father basically chose his second wife over his son when he sided with his stepmother on kicking him out; and I can sympathize with the sense of betrayal that he felt.

His mother after the divorce always seemed to have rich white boyfriends who treated her with fancy things (one of them even gave a CAR as a gift to him). I don't think it takes much extrapolation to make educated guesses on what type of people they were.

He is clearly a very disturbed individual but I don't see any evidence to think that he is so mentally impaired as to provide a completely unreliable account of his life.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: in my mind
4,616 posts, read 6,122,609 times
Reputation: 9150
Interesting new details- he initially knocked on the door of the sorority he had been stalking - but no one answered the door..

Denied again by people he hated, gunman improvised - The Washington Post
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:00 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
769 posts, read 890,531 times
Reputation: 1894
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
The problem that I have is sales without background checks. Do you think it's okay to sell guns to felons? Do you think sales in 33 states without checks is okay? Proven statistics that gun sales in Florida and Georgia end up in New York, and Boston. States with stricter laws have no chance when firearms are so easily obtained.

Trash talk California all you want, but you can be proud of your right wing Patriot Movement Jared Loughner from your state with liberal gun laws. My guns are mine, and I have been to shows, but that's not the point. You support illegal sales that I'm against, so you figure out who's the real conservative.
In this case, this nut job bought his guns LEGALLY, according to Commiefornia laws, so explain to me how following the laws could have stopped him ? He went thru the background checks, he waited the 7 days, the only gun laws he broke was when he carried it inside the car while loaded, how did that law do any good ?

And why is it that every place with restrictive gun laws have the highest murder and armed crime rates ? and why do they blame everyone else, do you think there is a reason why places where guns are not illegal they have lower crime rates ?
I will take freedom in AZ over what you have in commiefornia, in AZ, I am responsible for my protection, I do not have to beg permission to own a firearm, I do not have to ask permission to put on a coat, because it covers my sidearm, when it is cold. As far as criminals buying guns, if they are found with them, then they should be prosecuted to the limit of the law, but it is not up to anyone to have to verify someone else s record. If I sell someone a car, am I required to see if they have a drivers license and insurance ? and before you say it is a car and not a gun, more people are killed by cars than guns.

Oh and as far as loughner, he was not "right wing" he was "LEFT WING" he was a democrat and had worked on gilfords campaign, oh and there was a CCW carrier in the crowd that did not pull his weapon for fear of hitting bystanders, but he did tackle loughner and held him until the cops showed up.
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:04 PM
 
Location: in my mind
4,616 posts, read 6,122,609 times
Reputation: 9150
Good article about commonalities amongst these shooters:

Why Santa Barbara shootings are not just about gun control - CSMonitor.com

quote:

"In the yearning to make some sense of a rampage that left seven people dead, including the suspect, and 13 people injured, the public and the media have once again begun searching for elements of Rodger's life that fit the narrative of a mass killer. Some and perhaps all surely played a role.

But to researchers who have studied the trend, these are secondary – though important – factors. The young men who are overwhelmingly responsible for these shooting sprees fit a very clear portrait: self-obsessed yet marginalized in some way. Their rampages are not fits of senseless rage, but cold, calculating attempts to level the score with society.

In the attempt to become an antihero – to lay bare how they think they have been wronged by others – these men need an audience, and shooting sprees are the ultimate way to get one."
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,086,048 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Phx Native View Post
In this case, this nut job bought his guns LEGALLY, according to Commiefornia laws, so explain to me how following the laws could have stopped him ? He went thru the background checks, he waited the 7 days, the only gun laws he broke was when he carried it inside the car while loaded, how did that law do any good ?

And why is it that every place with restrictive gun laws have the highest murder and armed crime rates ? and why do they blame everyone else, do you think there is a reason why places where guns are not illegal they have lower crime rates ?
I will take freedom in AZ over what you have in commiefornia, in AZ, I am responsible for my protection, I do not have to beg permission to own a firearm, I do not have to ask permission to put on a coat, because it covers my sidearm, when it is cold. As far as criminals buying guns, if they are found with them, then they should be prosecuted to the limit of the law, but it is not up to anyone to have to verify someone else s record. If I sell someone a car, am I required to see if they have a drivers license and insurance ? and before you say it is a car and not a gun, more people are killed by cars than guns.

Oh and as far as loughner, he was not "right wing" he was "LEFT WING" he was a democrat and had worked on gilfords campaign, oh and there was a CCW carrier in the crowd that did not pull his weapon for fear of hitting bystanders, but he did tackle loughner and held him until the cops showed up.
I really don't care about your position on Loughner, and his ties to the Patriot movement proved otherwise. He was not part of her campaign.
Answer the question though? Do you believe selling weapons without background checks to felons in 33 states is right? It's a simple question that you keep avoiding.
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Old 05-25-2014, 03:03 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
I really don't care about your position on Loughner, and his ties to the Patriot movement proved otherwise. He was not part of her campaign.
Answer the question though? Do you believe selling weapons without background checks to felons in 33 states is right? It's a simple question that you keep avoiding.
And do you think it would be any different than drugs? Outlaw guns and if you want a gun, it would be just as easy to buy one as pot and heroin and cocaine are to buy. Chances are - you could buy it from the same dealer that would sell you heroin.
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