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Old 06-04-2014, 07:42 AM
 
12,071 posts, read 5,599,103 times
Reputation: 13586

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Quote:
Originally Posted by modernist1 View Post
Well, I happen to be for stronger gun control laws, but unfortunately the gun owners who cite the car defense have a point. The point of course that they miss is that vehicles are designed for transportation, weapons are designed with harm (call it defense if you like) in mind. Maybe enough Americans care about these tragedies, but it's becoming abundantly clear, that they don't really care enough. A fair number of Americans - like car owners - see death and injury as an unavoidable evil, the price of business. (You might ask why having a gun is so special, so essential, even point out that it's a bit juvenile, but you'd need a few pages to discuss the quirks of the American psyche). Finally, I'll say this, if guns are going to continue to rule large in this country, then, let's have no more vigils, or tears, or candles, or hand-wringing. When the next tragedy comes, make sure you walk stoically into the sunset - without looking back. To do otherwise is just damn embarrassing.
This. People don't care. It's gotten to the point where people shrug & say oh well, deaths deaths & more deaths is the price to pay to be free......meaning owning a gun is the only definition of "free" for these people. Pretty pathetic. Jon Stewart just had a clip about people's acceptance that nothing will be done about this epidemic. Apathy reigns supreme with these people.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,266 posts, read 1,373,676 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Parts of the USA (e.g. Northern New England, where I live) rank among the lowest homicide rate, by any means, in the developed world. So if the problem is guns, then why aren't residents of New Hampshire shooting each other? Why is our murder rate & violent crime rate in Northern New England lower than so many countries in the developed world?

If you're going to say that NH doesn't count because it is a state and not a nation and has open borders with other states, then why count individual EU nations separately, shouldn't statistics treat the European Union as a coherent whole also?




Why focus on murder rate by gun, when the US also is among the highest for our non-gun murder rate? Why the focus on Elliot Rodgers' 3 shooting victims, ignore the 3 men he stabbed to death? Why talk about the 8 survivors with gunshot wounds and ignore the 4-5 people he ran over?

Are some victims less important simply because they weren't shot, and so don't fit the narrative?
I'm not suggesting that there aren't variables within the US. But it would be obtuse not to recognize that the United States - we could argue neighborhoods or street blocks - has the highest number of homicides (many of which involve guns) in the developed world. You point out that New England has a low murder rate, whether by gun or otherwise - well, perhaps as is often cited by those who are against stricter gun laws - the problem is not the weaponry but the citizenry. Maybe the US (excluding such oases of quietude as NE) is too frenetic, too fractured, too solipsistic, too immature, to not have a high degree of violence. And the insistence on having the additional most efficient wherewithal is just part of the contract.
Re Elliot Rodgers' other victims - those stabbed to death, those run over by car, no one would pretend for a single second that their situation was any less terrible than that of the gun victims. Guns, though, are specifically designed to cause damage to a target, human or otherwise (for otherwise see stricter gun laws). For maximum wherewithal - see above.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:29 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,134,205 times
Reputation: 19545
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
This. People don't care. It's gotten to the point where people shrug & say oh well, deaths deaths & more deaths is the price to pay to be free......meaning owning a gun is the only definition of "free" for these people. Pretty pathetic. Jon Stewart just had a clip about people's acceptance that nothing will be done about this epidemic. Apathy reigns supreme with these people.
So, do you care about all the kids who commit suicide because they are bullied enough to start banning speech? Are you ready to lock people up who say mean things? Are will you just walk stoically into the sunset not turning around to see the graves being dug?
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:31 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,134,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Are some victims less important simply because they weren't shot, and so don't fit the narrative?
For many people, yes. It's about the agenda.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:44 AM
 
12,071 posts, read 5,599,103 times
Reputation: 13586
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
So, do you care about all the kids who commit suicide because they are bullied enough to start banning speech? Are you ready to lock people up who say mean things? Are will you just walk stoically into the sunset not turning around to see the graves being dug?
Lol, can you point out where I said guns should be banned? Thanks.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:05 AM
 
28,411 posts, read 14,134,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
Lol, can you point out where I said guns should be banned? Thanks.
Can you tell me where I said you said guns should be banned?
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:11 PM
 
12,071 posts, read 5,599,103 times
Reputation: 13586
Well let's see, would you not agree that you inferred it when you mentioned "banning speech" in your post? I would agree.

Last edited by thefragile; 06-04-2014 at 12:22 PM..
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:14 PM
 
30,332 posts, read 31,201,438 times
Reputation: 14005
Quote:
Originally Posted by himain View Post
Why couldn't he have hired a hooker to lose his virginity????
I too was wondering about that.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:58 PM
 
398 posts, read 360,069 times
Reputation: 780
A hammer has a different purpose than just killing people. A gun has only one purpose.

How hard is it to understand this? A weapon kills people.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:05 AM
 
Location: West Phoenix
769 posts, read 890,028 times
Reputation: 1894
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundofsilence82 View Post
A hammer has a different purpose than just killing people. A gun has only one purpose.

How hard is it to understand this? A weapon kills people.
a gun has many purposes, a shotgun can be used to kill, or it can be used to hunt, or it can be used to shoot trap and skeet,
Any gun can be used to kill, as can they be used for other purposes, such as target practice, competition, self defense,

What about the fact that this nut job stabbed to death 3 people, and ran over several others with his car, should we be trying to ban knives ? He killed just as many with a knife as he did with a gun. What about cars ? he used a car as a weapon, it was not designed as such, but he used it as one, so shouldn't cars be banned as dangerous weapons ?
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