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Old 05-31-2014, 03:50 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,341,908 times
Reputation: 2540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon_dax View Post
a no-knock warrant resulted in her baby being fragged out.
I'm all for officers' rights to defend themselves and protect the public
You might want to link to a local article, with more details:
Toddler critically injured by
The target of the raid "wasn’t a stranger to ... police ... during a prior arrest on drug charges, investigators discovered ... weapons, including an AK-47."
When drug dealers have military-grade weapons, and are still on the street, police have to act to protect themselves. I'm not a big fan of 3 A.M. raids, but I also don't want to read about raids turning into gun battles.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,563,855 times
Reputation: 5034
Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon_dax View Post
It is not the job of a policeman to execute anybody. They are not supposed to make a judgment over the guilt or innocence no a person. I agree that there are issues within the law and justice system that allow police offices to get signatures for so many no-knock warrants, but its the police officers who pull pins and triggers which is why I referred to it as "Judge Dredd in the executive branch".

If by lying with dogs you're going to get fleas you mean if you lie in a crib as a baby you're going to get fragged then maybe you would have a point. But a police officer ideally shouldn't be in a situation where he could drop a stun grenade in a crib. If the man was as armed and dangerous as reported, then it would be a pretty bad idea to enter into his home in any circumstances. We lost a lot of boys in Iraq and Afghanistan because it can be so hard to clear a room with a concealed marksman in it. That's exactly what got these four officers shot and one of them killed.

I also don't accept that "it is what it is". If people can take to twitter and get CEO's fired for donating a few thousand dollars to a lobbyist group of their choosing, then clearly the voice of the people still has power. I think some things are worth talking about and being put into the public sphere, because the people are the final check and balance in our government.
The mother is responsible for the child, and put him in a known drug den. Officers noted prior that no children were present when making a buy at the residence. It is a sad occurrence as the police have noted, but they were doing their job within the law as outlined. Honestly, if drugs were legal it wouldn't have happened, but this residence is exactly why the no knock warrant is used.

Now will see some hotshot attorney sue the city and profit from this mistake. Hopefully, the guy breaking the law will do time.
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Old 05-31-2014, 03:57 PM
 
211 posts, read 274,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
You might want to link to a local article, with more details:
Toddler critically injured by
The target of the raid "wasn’t a stranger to ... police ... during a prior arrest on drug charges, investigators discovered ... weapons, including an AK-47."
When drug dealers have military-grade weapons, and are still on the street, police have to act to protect themselves. I'm not a big fan of 3 A.M. raids, but I also don't want to hear about raids turning into gun battles.
How do you suppose going into a house where you expect somebody to be armed and dangerous makes it any safer for anybody involved? Does this guy walk down the street with an armed escort? Drive around in uparmored vehicles? I don't buy that this is the safest time to be able to take the suspect down. The time in between the drug deal and the raid gave the suspect time to relocate to another house, and not only did the police not know that they missed their opportunity because they were too busy planning a raid that ended with a stun grenade in a crib.
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:03 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,341,908 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon_dax View Post
How do you suppose going into a house where you expect somebody to be armed and dangerous makes it any safer for anybody involved?
That's why the no-knock & the flash-bangs are used: to overwhelm the target before he has a chance to react or reach for weapons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon_dax View Post
I don't buy that this is the safest time to be able to take the suspect down.
Actually, it is.
The legal problem with conducting raids when the target is not present, is that judges & juries do not accept that the dealer possesses the drugs & weapons inside. Absence leads to dismissals & acquittals. So, police feel compelled to raid when the target is present, but choose to do it during early morning hours, when he is likely to be asleep.
There were mistakes made here, such as checking to see if the target was home, and rolling rather than tossing the device. The gap of hours between the buy & the raid is due to the need to prepare & submit a search warrant to a judge or magistrate, and to assemble the raid team. Nothing takes minutes. Judges usually work business hours. Sometimes, legal paperwork has to be brought to their homes, for review & approval.
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,139,549 times
Reputation: 27563
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Here's a different article.

Toddler critically burned when police stun grenade lands in crib | www.wsbtv.com

An arrest was made, and they had bought drugs at the house previously in an undercover operation.
But not in the house. The guy was NOT in the house and arrested elsewhere.

The police USED to do this thing like making sure the guy was in the house first and no innocent victims would be in harm's way.

That was before we all became suspected terrorists and the local LE's got DHS terrorist training and the judges said "Go ahead and break the doors down".

So yeah..we WANTED all this protection. We wanted the cops to catch the bad guys quicker.
Now we get this type of collateral damage..just like in the ME.

Don't even try to excuse it off because this is what you wanted and now you got it.

I'm just waiting to read about mistaken drone bombings on homes next and don't think that won't happen.
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:25 PM
 
11,168 posts, read 8,302,243 times
Reputation: 20145
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
The mother is responsible for the child, and put him in a known drug den. Officers noted prior that no children were present when making a buy at the residence.
THANK YOU. And weren't there a couple of other kids there, too? The parents of those kids should be in jail for endangerment.
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:40 PM
 
3,245 posts, read 4,341,908 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
we all became suspected terrorists and the local LE's got DHS terrorist training and the judges said "Go ahead and break the doors down". ... collateral damage..just like in the ME. ... I'm just waiting to read about mistaken drone bombings
Somebody drank the Kool-Aid!
When the police are raiding your drug den for the second time, and they found an AK-47 the first time, you are a terrorist!
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,139,549 times
Reputation: 27563
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
Somebody drank the Kool-Aid!
When the police are raiding your drug den for the second time, and they found an AK-47 the first time, you are a terrorist!
The cops said they didn't even know kids were in the house so how well do you think they investigated ?
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,563,855 times
Reputation: 5034
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
The cops said they didn't even know kids were in the house so how well do you think they investigated ?
Good enough to know he was selling meth, and was armed. But if you approve of felons with guns selling meth feel free to demonize the good guys.
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Old 05-31-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,139,549 times
Reputation: 27563
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
Good enough to know he was selling meth, and was armed. But if you approve of felons with guns selling meth feel free to demonize the good guys.
But not smart enough to know he wasn't home before they "stormed the beach".
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