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Old 06-01-2014, 01:50 PM
 
5,574 posts, read 3,643,327 times
Reputation: 5393

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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Phx Native View Post
I watched a video of a 2010 no knock raid, the home owner had a golf club in his hands, from the time the police kicked in the door to the time the home owner was dead was 4 seconds, it was only after he had been shot that the police said to get down.

The rules to get a no knock warrant should be so high that is almost impossible to get and if they get one using falsified information, then all involved should be put in prison.
If a cop wears military gear and covers his face, he is a no better than a storm trooper and should be dealt with as such.
Or you get stories like this:

Berwyn Heights, Maryland mayor's residence drug raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No knock warrants are increasingly used, obviously not very hard to get.

The morons will defend themselves and each others even if they know they did wrong. The bigger issue, imo, is a complete lack of accountability and professionalism in the police force these days. I've heard plenty of stories of when my grandfather was a police chief. He would have fired these cops on the spot back in the day, he had fired cops for much less.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:04 PM
 
1,515 posts, read 996,298 times
Reputation: 1628
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
Or you get stories like this:

Berwyn Heights, Maryland mayor's residence drug raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No knock warrants are increasingly used, obviously not very hard to get.

The morons will defend themselves and each others even if they know they did wrong. The bigger issue, imo, is a complete lack of accountability and professionalism in the police force these days. I've heard plenty of stories of when my grandfather was a police chief. He would have fired these cops on the spot back in the day, he had fired cops for much less.

I agree with you. Cops are accountable to nobody. They investigate themselves which is a sick joke. They're mostly cowards hoping only to go home at the end of their shift. They lie for each other and cover for each other so they're all pretty much dirty. Taking innocent life means nothing to them and they're always able to rectify their criminal behavior by placing the blame on somebody else. In this case they're blaming the mother of the baby!! All Americans can do is try to fortify their homes to at least slow the entry of these thugs. Have weapons chambered with ammunition that will defeat body armor. And live with the understanding that you will die if SWAT comes but maybe you can die with the satisfaction that some of these cowards will end their shift in a body bag!
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,291 posts, read 3,385,503 times
Reputation: 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
Aren't they supposed to roll these things into rooms instead of throwing them?
No one is able to answer this?

This wouldn't have happened if they had rolled rather than chucked( I'm presuming it was chucked because that's the only way it could land in a crib) that stun grenade into the room.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:18 PM
 
5,574 posts, read 3,643,327 times
Reputation: 5393
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
No one is able to answer this?

This wouldn't have happened if they had rolled rather than chucked( I'm presuming it was chucked because that's the only way it could land in a crib) that stun grenade into the room.
One would think.



From their gofundme page:

Quote:
Imagine a fire department failing to rescue a toddler from a smoldering house based on the rationale that firefighters may be injured if their air tanks fail to properly operate. We'd say sometimes you just have to be brave. Yet, too often, we see LE in a different light. They go in with overwhelming force using military tactics to offset a "potential" threat that rarely materializes. When things go badly and innocent people are harmed (which happens far more often), they excuse themselves for their actions in the name of "safety." Sometimes you have to be brave. When you're not little children suffer for it.
Therefore, let us call the reprehensible actions of these officers for what it is: Cowardice.

Solid point imo...



or this quote:


Quote:
...a growing trend of police using SWAT teams and military tactics for cases that never would have warranted that treatment before...
An FBI SWAT team conducted a raid in Buffalo on suspicion of child porn possession, only to find out that the real perpetrator was totally innocent; the suspect in question had merely borrowed the place's WiFi connection. A SWAT team raided a DJ in Atlanta on suspicion of copyright violations. A Gibson Guitar factory in Tennessee was raided with a SWAT team on suspicion that they weren't the wood they imported for their guitars wasn't treated properly. Plenty of innocent people, from 80-year-old Isaac Singletary to 11-year-old Alberto Sepulveda to 88-year-old Kathryn Johnston, have been killed in SWAT raids.
From this blog: Georgia police threw a stun grenade in a 19-month-old's crib - Vox
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:27 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
773 posts, read 938,362 times
Reputation: 1905
Here is the video of the raid, see how long from the time the cops kicked the door to the time the home owner was murdered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSfOBPlY2n0
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,872 posts, read 13,501,647 times
Reputation: 29030
In Tucson, AZ, four law enforcement agencies recently paid a woman and her small children a $3.4 million settlement (no doubt through insurances policies purchased for them by taxpayers). Why?

On the morning of May 5, 2011, a man named Jose Guerena, a U.S. Marine recently returned from his second deployment in Iraq, was in his Tucson home sleeping off a 12-hour shift at his job in a Tucson-area copper mine. His wife awakened him saying that five men carrying guns with their faces covered were descending on their home and she had heard loud bangs in the backyard. Guerena instructed his wife to grab their small son and hide in a closet (another 6-year-old son was at school). He got out the AK-15 rifle he has used in the service and went to a window crouched down. The men outside in the yard opened fire. They shot 71 rounds at Guerena in less than 7 seconds. 22 of the bullets hit him. His wife called 911 from the closet, screaming that her husband needed medical attention. He didn't get it and died on the floor, as it was more than an hour before paramedics entered the home. That was because the police believed they first had to search the home "for their own safety"; they claimed they had shot Guerena because he fired on them first.

That was a lie. In fact, the safety was on his rifle. Did they find any drugs? No. Was any evidence of any kind related to drug trafficking or any other illegal activity found in the home? No. The police took Guerena's rifle, a pistol, and body armor he had worn in Iraq as their evidence against him. They also confiscated a Border Patrol ball cap. All of those items are legal for Arizonans to own.

Other than saying that the raid was based on information provided by a confidential informant, every other testimony regarding why and how this debacle took place is extremely contradictory. SWAT officers from three suburban Tucson towns assisted Pima County sheriffs in their no-knock raid, with no reasonable explanation why. Later it was found that a brother of Guerena, who lived in another Tucson neighborhood (also not a suburban location) was, indeed, dealing marijuana. But no evidence was ever presented to indicate Guerena participated in any way, especially given that he was fulfilling his Marine duties much of the time his brother was being investigated.

The wrong-doers agreed to settle with Guerena's widow Vanessa and her two fatherless sons without a trial, as long as she didn't insist that they admit wrongdoing. They did admit that Guerena, U.S Marine combat veteran and employed family man, was innocent of any wrongdoing.

Jose Guerena shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by Jukesgrrl; 06-01-2014 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,937,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curzon_dax View Post
A woman whose house had burnt down in Wisconsin was visiting with family in Atlanta when a no-knock warrant resulted in her baby being fragged out.

I am a veteran and did two tours in Iraq. It is very disturbing to me that I see the same tactics we used in Iraq back home against Americans. I know that some of these boys are former veterans, too, and I wonder if they ever think about it. I'm all for officers' rights to defend themselves and protect the public, but too often I hear about cases like this where doors are kicked down and nothing was even accomplished. They didn't find the guy they were looking for (note: the Daily Mail article appears to be wrong as everywhere I see the arrest happening outside of the raid) and it sounds like they didn't even find any drugs at all. Even if they had I could hardly support allowing SWAT teams to raid everybody's houses looking for drugs.

I'm not really settled on the gun debate, but I sure as heck wish that we could tone down the whole Judge Dredd thing that seems to be going on in the executive branch of our government.


It's gotten crazy, the militarization of the police has reached an absurd level. I'm a veteran as well and the sorts of tactics that you might have used in Iraq or Afghanistan don't apply in a normal law enforcement mode. You've got police departments all around the country, loading up, arming themselves like crazy, there's seemingly more no-knock warrants and stuff like that for even trivial crimes than ever before, as if they want to justify the ridiculous spending. You've got small towns investing in armored carriers and training their own SWAT teams when a regional team used to be more than plenty. It has gotten way out of control.
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Old 06-01-2014, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,937,478 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl View Post
In Tucson, AZ, four law enforcement agencies recently paid a woman and her small children a $3.4 million settlement. Why?

On the morning of May 5, 2011, a man named Jose Guerena, a U.S. Marine recently returned from his second deployment in Iraq was in his Tucson home, sleeping off a 12-hour shift at his job in a Tucson-area copper mine. His wife awakening him saying that five men carrying guns with their faces covered were descending on their home and she had heard loud bangs in the backyard. Guerena instructed his wife to grab their small son and hide in a closet (another 6-year-old son was at school). He got out the AK-15 rifle he has used in the service and went to a window crouched down. The people outside opened fire. They shot 71 rounds at Guerena in less than 7 seconds. 22 of the bullets hit him. His wife called 911 from the closet, screaming that her husband needed medical attention. He didn't get it and died on the floor, as it was more than an hour before paramedics entered the home. That was because the police first believed they had to search the home "for their own safety" because they claimed they had shot Guerena because he fired on them first.

That was a lie. In fact, the safety was on his rifle. Did they find any drugs? No. There was no evidence of any kind related to drug trafficking or any other illegal activity at the home. The police took Guerena's rifle, a pistol, and body armor he had worn in Iraq as their evidence against him. They also confiscated a Border Patrol ball cap. All of those items are legal for Arizonans to own.

Other than admitting that the raid was based on information provided by a confidential informant, every other testimony regarding why and how this raid took place is extremely contradictory. SWAT officers from three suburban Tucson towns assisted Pima County sheriffs in their raid, with no reasonable explanation why. Later it was found that a brother of Guerena, who lived in another Tucson neighborhood was, indeed, dealing marijuana. But no evidence was ever presented to indicate Guerena participated in any way, especially given that he was fulfilling his Marine duties much of the time his brother was being investigated.

The wrong-doers agreed to settle with Vanessa Guerena and her two sons without a trial, as long as she didn't insist that they admit wrongdoing. They did admit that Guerena was innocent of any wrongdoing.

Jose Guerena shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I'm sure that money is cold comfort for a family that will be missing a husband and a father. Its insane that police can just burst into your home and start shooting, no questions asked. Reportedly the only round that went off before that SWAT team completely unloaded on the house was fired by a member of their own team.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,997 posts, read 15,998,162 times
Reputation: 12610
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeaceAndLove42 View Post
Even so it's ridiculous they act like they're going after Bin Laden just for drugs. So what if there are drugs? The EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL drugs sure do warrant flash bangs and gestapo tactics.

These are scum pigs that should know what "over kill" is.
Yeah, drugs + guns do.

Terrible timing. I wonder how much time there was between the undercover buy and the raid though.
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Old 06-01-2014, 05:26 PM
 
11,210 posts, read 8,356,190 times
Reputation: 20257
Quote:
Originally Posted by transdimensionalhottie View Post
Also, the average heroin user is a 30 year old white women living in the suburbs, so all of you worried about "laying with dogs" are probably laying with tons without realizing it. SO MANY people you know buy and do drugs and DO NOT TELL YOU, so you might never know when you are in a drug house.
H addicts don't have to tell anyone when they're using. It's written in neon all over them. You'd have to be blind not to know.

Ice-heads are pretty easy to spot, too, since their life expectancy is about 10yrs. They fall to sh-t pretty quickly.

I hope that baby survives. I hope he grows up and asks his mother why she was keeping him in the front room of a known drug den with automatic weapons. Her house burned down? Was she cooking meth cuz that's a real common occurrence. I can't believe anyone sticks up for that loser POS.

Citizens lose the right to bear arms when they become felons.
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