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Old 06-01-2014, 06:42 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
It's called "collateral damage." As tragic as this incident is, it was executed at a known drug house where undercover officers had previously made buys and automatic weapons were known to be present.

The blame for this incident should not fall on the SWAT team and drug enforcement officers, but on the perps who put that child in harms way in the first place.
Why is the collateral damage acceptable? The SWAT team let the stun grenade out not the family. Was the collateral damage worth catching a drug dealer? Of course not.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,575 posts, read 9,603,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Why is the collateral damage acceptable? The SWAT team let the stun grenade out not the family. Was the collateral damage worth catching a drug dealer? Of course not.
Why is it the acceptable in the case of the Sandy Hook children? How many lives have been changed for the good jailing the meth dealer? Clearly, as had been mentioned if it were rolled on the floor it wouldn't have occurred. However, we are human and mistakes occur, and the parents should hold some responsibility for putting a child in a potentially harmful environment? The Sandy Hook parents sent there kids to a school, and their kids are dead. Our politicians actions say they're collateral damage and nothing needs to change?
Why such an outcry for an injured child as opposed to many that are dead?
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:08 PM
 
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Ironic that in the War on Drugs, the biggest threat is the police themselves. Look at what they've become. Overly aggressive and militarized. Killing innocent people and then magically nothing happens to them and they are free to do it again. I'm an educated white guy in a middle class area and I do my best to avoid any interaction with police. You can be the nicest guy, completely innocent, and still end up with a ruined life thanks to one bad cop. You can't tell them apart, so it's wise to assume they are all just itching to destroy you.

I remember growing up with a respect for cops. They were seen as your protector, your advocate and friend, someone you could trust. Now look at them! Large swaths of law-abiding society fear them and even hate them. Sad they they now rule by fear and intimidation, ie they are bullies. They brought this hate upon themselves. Anymore I don't know how anyone with a shred of integrity could live with themselves as a cop on today's force.

This baby will now have to deal with the effects of that assanine group of thugs for the rest of his life. That's a mighty long time to pay for someone else's mistake.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:11 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,975 posts, read 41,793,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
How many lives have been changed for the good jailing the meth dealer? Clearly, as had been mentioned if it were rolled on the floor it wouldn't have occurred. However, we are human and mistakes occur, and the parents should hold some responsibility for putting a child in a potentially harmful environment?
The Sandy Hook shootings aren't the topic of the thread.

A SWAT team with no-knock raids setups a dangerous situation, where mistakes are more likely to be made. Others have brought others incidents of mistakes being made by SWAT teams. Clearly, if the SWAT team hadn't come in it wouldn't have occurred. The parents made bad choices, but no I don't think they have any responsibilty of their child getting injured by a dangerous SWAT team.

As for lives being changed for the good by jailing the meth dealer, don't know but it's a new meth dealer could just take his place. Are the SWAT team any less dangerous?
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:26 PM
 
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This gets me curious as to what type of people the police recruit...are they educated, mentally-stable, un-power hungry?
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,975 posts, read 41,793,908 times
Reputation: 14799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty All View Post
This gets me curious as to what type of people the police recruit...are they educated, mentally-stable, un-power hungry?
For a friend who worked with the NYPD, it attracts those who like getting a power trip. Of course, plenty aren't like that.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:17 PM
 
87 posts, read 104,278 times
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The situation is tragic, sympathy goes out to all involved and the innocent baby. But a lot of the reactions on here are short sighted.

who on here would want to knock on that garage door and say' police, please come to the door' - knowing the guy has sold full auto weapons and is a meth dealer... you go do that, and when you don't come home for dinner, people will say you were dumb, should have done a no knock warrant, we're all experts , we've got people on here saying they should be fired, I guess because the news story fills them in to such a degree they must understand all the details, bc the news is always very accurate and complete.


So SWAT goes and tosses a flashbang into an area the guy used to operate out of, the house probably is not a multi family dwelling and there's probably no permit for that at city hall, but there is a family of 5 and a baby crammed in there...

SO it's the officers fault >? Sounds like it's the criminal's fault for doing business in a spot a family moves into later. You think there's no one in that entire property that didnt know the guy was doing drug sales and that he was a criminal?

lets blame the cops and use this as another chance to decry the 'militarization' of cops, even though even on this very forum you have people literally saying- hey if the cops come to your house, fortify it and use armor piercing rounds to get them... and that's also exactly what happened to Randy Simmons, SWAT LAPD, and how he died...and it's not even encompassing Cartel agents, hardened gang members, extreme sovereign citizens and others who will shoot at cops, all of who are a reality now.

tragic situation, but sometimes bad things happen to innocent people because bad people take advantage of people, like here, using a normal family's home to conduct sales. BLame the criminal not cops.
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Old 06-01-2014, 09:33 PM
 
1,030 posts, read 1,222,938 times
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If anyone wants to be cheered up I'd recommend watching this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWZFkPiFlkE

It brings a smile to my face and wouldn't at all feel bad if this happened IRL
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,575 posts, read 9,603,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The Sandy Hook shootings aren't the topic of the thread.
The point was your claim collateral damage is unacceptable when LEO's are at fault, but we as a society say it's acceptable by criminals? Do you not see a double standard here?
Quote:
A SWAT team with no-knock raids setups a dangerous situation, where mistakes are more likely to be made. Others have brought others incidents of mistakes being made by SWAT teams. Clearly, if the SWAT team hadn't come in it wouldn't have occurred. The parents made bad choices, but no I don't think they have any responsibilty of their child getting injured by a dangerous SWAT team.

As for lives being changed for the good by jailing the meth dealer, don't know but it's a new meth dealer could just take his place. Are the SWAT team any less dangerous?
Bad choices, but not responsible for taking their children into a home of a know felon? Sorry, I will never agree. No knock is a tool used to make sure evidence is not flushed. Meth is a very bad drug and as long as it's illegal we need to enforce our laws. If busting this guy takes drugs away from someone who never does it again I would say it's worth it. We sensationalize a mistake without comprehending the global ideal.
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Old 06-01-2014, 10:24 PM
 
Location: West Phoenix
773 posts, read 938,635 times
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The problem is, the cops are wrong too often and too many times a innocent is MURDERED by the cops. Maybe there was someone selling drugs there at one time, how long ago ? a month, a year ? how many times have the cops raided a house because a druggie points to a house and says that one. If cops bought drugs there, then they should have gone in within minutes, not later.

In the Tucson example, they shot the homeowner 22 times, then lied and said he had fired at them, yet the facts showed he had never fired and his rifle had the safety engaged, on top of it, after they shot him, they let him bleed to death in his hallway and would not allow medical aid to enter for a hour. oh, and the cops fired 77 shots, the video showed a group of keystone cops with one reaching over the top of the other cops to fire his pistol without being able to see or aim where he was firing.
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