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Old 06-08-2014, 04:44 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
7,665 posts, read 5,647,038 times
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For those of you who know something about horse training - and I don't - how much is there to this "fresh horses" factor? That is, how much rest is required after a big race for a horse to be considered "fresh" again? Is two weeks and three weeks really not enough? Or is the complaint about coming in with "fresh horses" just reaching for an excuse without any real legitimacy?
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:34 AM
 
3,442 posts, read 4,475,189 times
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To dissect where Mr Coburn was wrong...........

"He shouldn't even run in the Triple Crown"

Technically, Tonalist was not.
Tonalist was running in the Belmont.

The owners of Tonalist knew they were not competing ...for...Triple Crown.

Only one horse was actually running to win the Triple Crown and he failed to do it.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:53 AM
 
24,843 posts, read 31,269,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
For those of you who know something about horse training - and I don't - how much is there to this "fresh horses" factor? That is, how much rest is required after a big race for a horse to be considered "fresh" again? Is two weeks and three weeks really not enough? Or is the complaint about coming in with "fresh horses" just reaching for an excuse without any real legitimacy?
Horses at that level should be fit enough to do it.

An owner who feels their horse has been to stressed should leave the horse in the barn.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
20,344 posts, read 20,446,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
For those of you who know something about horse training - and I don't - how much is there to this "fresh horses" factor? That is, how much rest is required after a big race for a horse to be considered "fresh" again? Is two weeks and three weeks really not enough? Or is the complaint about coming in with "fresh horses" just reaching for an excuse without any real legitimacy?
I'll defer to more knowledgeable people, but when I use to pay more attention and study 'The Form' frequently, it was unusual to see a horse run more than once every 4 or 5 weeks and even then that would often be preceded, or followed by a 2 month or longer layoff. At this point, 10 of the past 13 failed attempts, were beaten by a horse that had skipped at least one of the previous two TC races. This won't be changing anytime soon and I recall talk in the past that would stretch out the period between all three races. Doing that however, would step on the toes of any of the other major stakes races and their tracks that run all summer long.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,597 posts, read 6,117,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
For those of you who know something about horse training - and I don't - how much is there to this "fresh horses" factor? That is, how much rest is required after a big race for a horse to be considered "fresh" again? Is two weeks and three weeks really not enough? Or is the complaint about coming in with "fresh horses" just reaching for an excuse without any real legitimacy?
Even after a big stakes race with a big field it is rare you will see a horse come back and run 3 weeks later, nevermind the 2 weeks. They are usually given at least 4 weeks off, many times it is longer in a case like that.
A horse who has been laid off for too long can work against you. The purists will jump down my throat when I say this but I'd like to see these races spaced a bit more than they are now.

Steve Coburn is a greedy, arrogant, big mouthed classless jerk of an owner who did not have his horses welfare on his mind. If his horse was tired like his jockey said he was coming out of the gate it shoulld have been detected and he should have not run at all. He didn't deserve to win and he was beaten handily, period.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,272 posts, read 15,058,088 times
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It's unfortunate that California Chrome's owner was unable to lose gracefully. Many people wanted his horse to win (myself included) but that did not happen.

It's not good sportsmanship to take away from Tonalist .
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,884 posts, read 36,412,001 times
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I'm glad he said it. At the very least, it's started a public discussion that is way overdue.

Oh, and there's photo evidence of Matterhorn stepping on California Chrome's right front hoof (the injured one) coming out of the gate. You try running a race that long with someone on top of you with a chunk of your foot freshly missing and see how well you do.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,904 posts, read 11,011,093 times
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I don't know a single thing about horse racing. That said, from the eyes of only seeing the end result, I agree with the man who owns CA Chrome. It's not a fair race if each contestant hasn't run equal courses in an equal time.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:12 AM
 
Location: East of the Mississippi and South of Bluegrass
4,114 posts, read 3,395,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
That's not what I said. I don't remember and if there once was a rule it wasn't recent.
I have found this, which doesn't make sense in that I have not been able to find out "when" this changed...if indeed it ever was a criteria for the TC.

"A horse must win all three races to win the Triple Crown"

Kentucky Derby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
For those of you who know something about horse training - and I don't - how much is there to this "fresh horses" factor? That is, how much rest is required after a big race for a horse to be considered "fresh" again? Is two weeks and three weeks really not enough? Or is the complaint about coming in with "fresh horses" just reaching for an excuse without any real legitimacy?
Racehorse injuries and fatalities are an unfortunate side effect of training and competition.

...prompted racing industries around the world to make a concerted effort at determining the extent of the problem and the causes.

Racehorse injuries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't know if it is possible for a horse to win the TC in this age. They are not bred for endurance and are pretty fragile. The last race at Belmont really demands a lot from horses that have run the first two legs; adding to that are fresh horses who did not run in the first two races and the chances of another TC are pretty slim."

Who cares about a The Triple Crown
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,597 posts, read 6,117,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I'm glad he said it. At the very least, it's started a public discussion that is way overdue.

Oh, and there's photo evidence of Matterhorn stepping on California Chrome's right front hoof (the injured one) coming out of the gate. You try running a race that long with someone on top of you with a chunk of your foot freshly missing and see how well you do.
A public dicussion on what? That the Belmont Stakes yesterday should have been a 3 horse race?

He wanted to steal top purse money in a 3-horse race in slow time so he could claim the Triple Crown title. That is clearly what he wanted to do. It's unreasonable and his claim should be laughed at and dismissed.

If any discussion should be done it's spacing these races more than they are now. So what about the tradition. I think the change would be positive for the sport for many years to come.
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