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Old 03-17-2015, 07:10 AM
 
17,479 posts, read 14,960,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
That's one of the problems, but the other is too many people in the labor pool. Notice real wages have gone down ever since women entered the labor force in large masses. Now the baby boomers are retiring, but unfortunately more and more labor is being automated and we're letting hundreds of thousands of immigrants flood this country to add to the labor pool and further drive down wages.

If the government doesn't institute some sort of large tax on companies for using automation rather than people, there won't be that many people making this "living wage."
Please, find me one source that backs up blaming women for this. Real wages started going down 1. When Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union, letting other businesses know unions could be busted, and starting that trend that is at a peak today 2. when trade agreements allowed US companies to move their manufacturing and customer service overseas and 3. when companies began bringing foreign workers over on work visas due to worker shortages, and continued to do so long after the shortages ended.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:43 AM
Status: ""Undeclared"" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,942 posts, read 2,597,904 times
Reputation: 12915
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccm123 View Post
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head.

Why stop at $15, in a few years, let's raise it to $50 an hour! (sarcasm)

Wages should always be supply and demand based, this keeps the workforce competitive and rewards those who have attained marketable skills and an education.

Pretty soon, uneducated "burger flippers" will be at the same wage rate at doctors, which would remove the incentives to obtain an education.

That's a bit of an exaggeration but it is a valid point. I can remember my stubborn junior high and high school years and my parents struggling to get me to do my homework while my friends were out enjoying themselves. The most effective threat from them was that an uneducated person would have to settle for a loser job and be poor. It struck me from an early age that socialism, or a redistributive economy, took away the incentive to achieve for all but the most self motivated people. It takes away the incentive to buckle down and do your homework, so to speak. This sort of culture of mediocrity has always been my biggest irreconcilable difference with that sort of world view.

I'd hate to think I was a sucker for staying in and studying while my friends were out partying. Although let's be honest, I joined in on the partying often enough that I cannot count myself among the world's elite. I blame only myself though.

The poster who said that the fact that McDonalds is the only job available is a bigger problem than the fact that McDonalds does not pay well is absolutely correct. Burger Flipper was never intended to be a career. It's a job for teenagers looking for beer and date night money and was never meant to support a family. For whatever reason, America is chasing away or devaluing the jobs people have tended to rely on for their careers and livelihoods. Some think the way to solve that problem is to turn the remaining jobs in to career or living wage positions but I don't think the numbers add up when you take that approach.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:52 AM
 
8,361 posts, read 8,634,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
The shut-downs have idled dozens of low-wage workers, the very people advocates say the wage law is supposed to help. Instead of delivering the promised “living wage” of $15 an hour, economic realities created by the new law have dropped the hourly wage for these workers to zero.

I wonder if this fact will change anyone's mind. Unfortunately, the true believers will find some fault with the above and insist it isn't true.
I am not saying that I support a $15 an hour minimum wage. I think its too high and will likely lead to a lot of unemployed, low skilled people.

That being said, we've basically allowed the minimum wage to die as a mechanism for preventing too much exploitation at the lower end of the job market. What I do support is a minimum wage immediately of $9.00 an hour with a raise to $10.00 per hour within a year. Perhaps, the youngest employees should be given a slightly lower minimum wage as well.

My last point is that it hardly surprises me that you can find an article in Forbes Magazine that is critical of what happened. Forbes is a conservative business publication and I suspect the management of the magazine doesn't believe in a minimum wage at all. Of course, they are going to write something negative on this issue.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:00 AM
Status: ""Undeclared"" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,942 posts, read 2,597,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post

That being said, we've basically allowed the minimum wage to die as a mechanism for preventing too much exploitation at the lower end of the job market. What I do support is a minimum wage immediately of $9.00 an hour with a raise to $10.00 per hour within a year. Perhaps, the youngest employees should be given a slightly lower minimum wage as well.
Keep in mind that if this approach was taken then most of those low wage jobs would end up going to the youngest workers. You'd end up locking out those living wage seekers who you are trying to help. This may be a good thing for the younger workers, but it is an unintended consequence you'd have to look out for.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,475,041 times
Reputation: 7703
Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreenflute334 View Post
Actually the cost of goods will have to go up to cover it. So, the $15.00 isn't going to solve anything.
That does not have to happen.

Why Wal-Mart can afford to give its workers a 50%*raise - Fortune
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:11 AM
 
13,098 posts, read 5,457,398 times
Reputation: 8066
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Please, find me one source that backs up blaming women for this. Real wages started going down 1. When Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union, letting other businesses know unions could be busted, and starting that trend that is at a peak today 2. when trade agreements allowed US companies to move their manufacturing and customer service overseas and 3. when companies began bringing foreign workers over on work visas due to worker shortages, and continued to do so long after the shortages ended.
I'm not blaming women. I am a woman in the labor market. I'm merely pointing out that wages have been stagnate for years, for many reasons, including more people competing for a decreasing amount of jobs due to all the things you mentioned plus automation. If companies aren't outsourcing, they're bringing in foreign workers to work for less on H1-B visas and forcing the current workers to train the replacements. I've seen this happen to several friends of mine. I never agreed with the trade agreements. Too bad neither party will do anything about it.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,356,548 times
Reputation: 6650
I do recall when it was mostly Teens, HS or post-HS who worked in fast food and retail. I was one of them. We did have older supervisors. Then I recall reading how many seniors were taking retail and FF jobs away from teens/early 20s folk(still in school types). Then it was recent immigrants. Now it is older folks who never did well in school and have few options in life. I am guessing the latter in earlier decades worked in factories or service related jobs which have shrunk considerably and require more skills which they do not possess as the competitive pool is larger.

Looks rough for everyone involved.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Hialeah, Florida
506 posts, read 328,468 times
Reputation: 1334
Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
I'm not blaming women. I am a woman in the labor market. I'm merely pointing out that wages have been stagnate for years, for many reasons, including more people competing for a decreasing amount of jobs due to all the things you mentioned plus automation. If companies aren't outsourcing, they're bringing in foreign workers to work for less on H1-B visas and forcing the current workers to train the replacements. I've seen this happen to several friends of mine. I never agreed with the trade agreements. Too bad neither party will do anything about it.
The real reason wages have been stagnate for many years because billionaires seized total control of the government 35 years ago and have been working ever since to undo the progress made during the previous 80 years, to return the USA clock back to 1900.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Seminole County, FL
7,830 posts, read 5,409,322 times
Reputation: 9543
LPNs make around $15/hr. So do starting CNC programmers, among other skilled professionals.
These individuals went to school and/or underwent some rather intensive training, and must utilize critical skills and thinking to prevent injuries and/or death.
Something wrong here?

Let's increase every profession's median salaries by the same ratio as the min. wage increase. See how this works.

Last edited by Arcenal352; 03-17-2015 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 03-17-2015, 12:30 PM
 
13,098 posts, read 5,457,398 times
Reputation: 8066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
I do recall when it was mostly Teens, HS or post-HS who worked in fast food and retail. I was one of them. We did have older supervisors. Then I recall reading how many seniors were taking retail and FF jobs away from teens/early 20s folk(still in school types). Then it was recent immigrants. Now it is older folks who never did well in school and have few options in life. I am guessing the latter in earlier decades worked in factories or service related jobs which have shrunk considerably and require more skills which they do not possess as the competitive pool is larger.

Looks rough for everyone involved.
Older workers have a hard time getting jobs because companies don't want to hire someone who will only be there for a few years. There is a lot of age discrimination out there.
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