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Old 06-21-2014, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,123 posts, read 4,580,500 times
Reputation: 3262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
The vast majority of Americans have comprehensive health coverage.
45 million don't.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:18 AM
 
8,315 posts, read 8,593,884 times
Reputation: 25964
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I had the unfortunate experience of tearing my Achilles tendon recently. I was on a forum that is world wide, for those who have done this and required medical repair. The difference in protocols was AMAZING. Much better care in the US vs other countries. In fact, those living elsewhere were constantly complaining about the lack of adequate care for this pretty common injury. Long waits, lack of facilities, refusals to do surgery or even perform MRI's - going the cheapest route possible (trying to fix it nonsurgically when in the US the more effective surgical route was nearly always taken, and almost immediately).

Made me very glad to be living in the US and "putting up with" our medical system. I tore mine in February and am fully recovered while many in the group in the UK, Australia, etc are still clumping around in orthopedic boots and hoping to eventually get the care they need.
Its not really important, but I had the same injury after stepping into my window well one snowy Christmas. Mine was treated non-surgically. A painful injury, I might add.

I think the care level in this country for many medical problems is high. However, there's a certain amount of cherry-picking that goes on. For example, we might do the best job with advanced cancer treatment. Yet, another country might save or extend far more lives by having a program that concentrates on preventing heart disease by seeing that every person gets access to statins and high blood pressure medicine at no cost. We have many people in the USA who don't have free or cheap access to these drugs. Our country might do a good job at performing high risk delivery of babies. Yet, another country might do a better job preventing high risk pregnancies by providing excellent prenatal care to mothers at low cost or no cost.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
The vast majority of Americans have comprehensive health coverage.
Because of the ACA more people are on health insurance policies. However, more than 10% are still not insured. More importantly, many plans still have high deductibles. I don't know what your definition of "comprehensive health insurance" is, but that is not mine.

We've made progress, but we are a long way from good universal health insurance.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:52 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,267 posts, read 1,375,935 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
Let me tell you a story about my cousin.

He had no health insurance and a low paying job. He could not see a doctor, because doctors want payment up front, and he did not have money to pay a doctor nor did he qualify for Medicare.

When he got sick, he had to "tough it out" because he knew he could not afford the doctor visit nor the tests that the doctor might order for him. When he finally collapsed, he was rushed to the hospital in the small town where he lived, he was flown by helicopter to a hospital in the city where surgeons rushed him into surgery. He survived for about a week, but the life-saving measures were too late. He was 55 years old.

Your friend, while agitated that he had to wait, survived. Had your friend's ailment been more severe than it was, then surgery would have been performed immediately.

As for showing up in the emergency room one day and having surgery the next, that almost never happens. My mother was hospitalized for chest pains, she was diagnosed with arterial blockages, spent a week in the hospital and sent home with instructions similar to your friend. Her surgery was performed 4 weeks after the diagnosis. She had quadruple bypass surgery.

Her health insurance is excellent.
In a developed country, no one should have to be concerned with just toughing it out.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:33 PM
 
Location: UP of Michigan
1,766 posts, read 2,006,137 times
Reputation: 5706
Again, mega hospital corps and an emphasis on drug solutions is IMO contributing to this untenable situation. This article was news here in the heartland this week. Toledo Blade
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,087 posts, read 11,530,265 times
Reputation: 9699
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
Again, my rotator cuff injury, while painful, was hardly life-threatening or urgent.
Clinic to X-Ray to cortisone shots to specialist to Nuclear medicine - about ten days.
I won't be complaining.
Most Canadians are quite happy with the system.
If it's urgent or life-threatening, the care is immediate and of excellent quality.
Quote:
This site.. Surgical Wait Times

seems to indicate that you are the exception, not the rule.
If I was the exception, then roughly 90% of Canadians wouldn`t be satisfied with their healthcare, but they are.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,054 posts, read 32,742,081 times
Reputation: 57167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
45 million don't.
Many of those qualify for Medicare or Medicaid.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,054 posts, read 32,742,081 times
Reputation: 57167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
45 million don't.
About ten percent of Americans don't have health insurance - for a wide variety of reasons. However, many of those qualify for government assistance in the way of Medicare or Medicaid. Some can well afford health insurance but choose not to invest in it- which is their choice (and one they will be fined for now).
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Old 06-21-2014, 04:11 PM
 
14,790 posts, read 13,491,956 times
Reputation: 20482
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
I laugh when people here all those "stories" about other countries systems. More propaganda from the america is always the best crowd. If other countries systems are so bad, and america's so good then why doesn't the rest of the world adopt the U$ style system then? Do all these posters here who talk about long waits, actually LIVE in those other countries, or is it what they "heard" Even the $7 co-pay for bulk billing that Abbott is proposing is still better than most co-pays in the U$. Medicine that costs me $800 in the $tate$, costs me only $76 down here for the same stuff, and thats with no coverage at all. sorry america-your system isn't the best
Doubt the $7 co payment will pass the senate
The Australian medical Association oppose it as do the opposition
Thank god

During those days after the budget I came across this. That image in the article really surprised me
http://americablog.com/2013/11/texas...are-texas.html
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:13 PM
 
8,187 posts, read 6,024,353 times
Reputation: 10580
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Originally Posted by weltschmerz
Again, my rotator cuff injury, while painful, was hardly life-threatening or urgent.
Clinic to X-Ray to cortisone shots to specialist to Nuclear medicine - about ten days.
I won't be complaining.
Most Canadians are quite happy with the system.
If it's urgent or life-threatening, the care is immediate and of excellent quality.

If I was the exception, then roughly 90% of Canadians wouldn`t be satisfied with their healthcare, but they are.
So.. You're claiming that the official Canadian Ministry of Health website is making things up to make themselves look worse than they are?

that's not just some random 'oh, let's put some numbers up' site.. That is the stats directly from the BC Ministry of Health. I didn't cherry pick the numbers from there or anything (I couldn't find an overall Canadian site, just that one from BC).. I didn't cherry pick the surgery, either.. I went for shoulder surgery, which is what you brought up..

If you want to dig deeper into the site.. The numbers for something far more serious.. A mastectomy. 50% done within 2.3 weeks.. 90% within 7 weeks. What the site doesn't say is whether that's from the time that something is found (meaning, total time, from lump discovered, including biopsy) or if that time starts from the diagnosis and treatment plan specifying mastectomy. If it's the former.. That's.. Probably very comparable to the US. If it's the latter... Not too good, since there are similar wait times for a biopsy.

Quote:
But.... those all inclusive insurance plans paid for by an employer or retirement system are a thing of the past......
That.. I won't disagree with at all. Of course.. I don't really know that people like my grandmother exist in this generation.. indulge me for a moment while I tell a bit about her story(Totally off-topic, but..).. Her parents divorced in the 20's or 30's.. Which was a big (bad) thing back then. She lived with her grandparents in Chicago because when her mother remarried, the new husband didn't want to take care of someone else's kids. Her father relocated to Long Beach, CA for work sometime in the 30's so when she finished high school in (I think) '43, she went out to live with him. Around that time, she met my grandfather, who was in Long Beach while his ship (USS Chenango) was in port. They started dating, he got his orders to deploy, they got married. He bought her a bus ticket to come to South Carolina to stay with his family until he returned from the war.. At about 18 years old, she was freshly married, riding a bus across the country to go live with people she had never met before. He did return from the war, they had 3 kids, he passed away in 56.. She remarried in 58 or so and they remained married until his death in 97. She worked for 30 years at a home for the mentally retarded, he for well over 30 years in a textile mill.

Now, that leads into this (Though I didn't intend it to).. He was diagnosed with lung cancer in 96. Radiation, no chemo, they did give him surgery for blocked carotid arteries.. He owed VERY little in medical bills. And the mill he had worked so long for had gone bankrupt and closed by that time.

Quote:
He had no health insurance and a low paying job. He could not see a doctor, because doctors want payment up front, and he did not have money to pay a doctor nor did he qualify for Medicare.

When he got sick, he had to "tough it out" because he knew he could not afford the doctor visit nor the tests that the doctor might order for him. When he finally collapsed, he was rushed to the hospital in the small town where he lived, he was flown by helicopter to a hospital in the city where surgeons rushed him into surgery. He survived for about a week, but the life-saving measures were too late. He was 55 years old.
The mistakes here..

1) He wouldn't have qualified for Medicare unless he was 65. You must have meant Medicaid?
2) he could not see a doctor. Incorrect. 10 seconds, #1 google result on searching "Free Clinics littleton, co" is this. Free Clinics Littleton CO | Free Health Clinics Littleton CO | Littleton Free Clinics
3) "Had to tough it out".. Incorrect, see above. You didn't mention what he was diagnosed with, but regardless of what it was, and removing the free clinic stigma.. he could have gone to an ER and he would have received care.

The valid point, that you didn't mention.. Had he done the ER route, he very well could have had massive medical bills. But, he would have received care. He may have very well THOUGHT that he had no choices, but he was incorrect. Assuming it was cancer, even if he went and DID have million dollar medical bills.. There are places that assist. From government programs to charities to crowdsourcing nowadays(Bankruptcy is an option, too, even if it is distasteful). And, even with the million dollar bills.. At least he'd possibly be alive.

None of this is to say "hey, our system is the best".. But, your example is poor. The person talking about the preemie before you had a much better example of the failings of our health care system.
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,108 posts, read 4,665,640 times
Reputation: 5389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post

The mistakes here..

1) He wouldn't have qualified for Medicare unless he was 65. You must have meant Medicaid?
2) he could not see a doctor. Incorrect. 10 seconds, #1 google result on searching "Free Clinics littleton, co" is this. Free Clinics Littleton CO | Free Health Clinics Littleton CO | Littleton Free Clinics
3) "Had to tough it out".. Incorrect, see above. You didn't mention what he was diagnosed with, but regardless of what it was, and removing the free clinic stigma.. he could have gone to an ER and he would have received care.

The valid point, that you didn't mention.. Had he done the ER route, he very well could have had massive medical bills. But, he would have received care. He may have very well THOUGHT that he had no choices, but he was incorrect. Assuming it was cancer, even if he went and DID have million dollar medical bills.. There are places that assist. From government programs to charities to crowdsourcing nowadays(Bankruptcy is an option, too, even if it is distasteful). And, even with the million dollar bills.. At least he'd possibly be alive.

None of this is to say "hey, our system is the best".. But, your example is poor. The person talking about the preemie before you had a much better example of the failings of our health care system.
1) I am sorry; I meant Medicaid, not Medicare.

2) I live in Littleton; he did not. The small town in the mountains where he lived did not have a free clinic. The nearest free clinic is in the Denver metro area, 75 miles or so from where he lived.

3) He didn't go to the ER, because while he would have received care, he still would have been on the hook for the ER charges. Also, the hospital where he lived did not have the ability to care for him. That is why he was airlifted to Denver.

4) He died before crowdsourcing became an option, was too proud to ask his relatives for money (he would have gotten it), and did not believe in bankruptcy. That was his fault. He also died because, as a member of the working poor, he had no direct access to a doctor/clinic, his employer did not offer (and is not required to offer) any sort of health insurance or paid sick leave. That is society's fault.

He was living hand to mouth and needed all the hours he got to pay his bills.
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