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Old 06-24-2014, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,739 posts, read 2,481,723 times
Reputation: 1425

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U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing - Olga Khazan - The Atlantic

Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey - The Washington Post

NHS among developed world's most efficient health systems, says study | Society | The Guardian

NHS is the world's best healthcare system, report says | Society | The Guardian
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:24 AM
 
Location: Seattle
6,357 posts, read 8,551,719 times
Reputation: 3324
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyasdf View Post
The other countries are socialized. That's why the US ranks last. If I'm not mistaken. people in those other countries are taxed as much as 75%, if not more. I don't think most Americans really want that much tax coming out of their paycheck. US may rank last in that poll, but I don't think you'll find any better health care, or more advance health care than what we have in the United States. I would still rather get sick in the United States than any other country in the world, hands down over all the rest.
I can tell that you have never been outside of US.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,739 posts, read 2,481,723 times
Reputation: 1425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Your post was obviously an exaggeration, therefore it is bs! Where did you come up with such a ridiculous figure?
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:40 AM
 
261 posts, read 316,428 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Your post was obviously an exaggeration, therefore it is bs! Where did you come up with such a ridiculous figure?
I heard it on the radio news this afternoon. It was told like it was factual. And my post is not total bs because I also said I would rather get sick in the US than anywhere else in the world. Now, I know for sure that's a fact, so therefore my post was not "total" bs, as you, so all-knowingly and self-assuredly claim.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:50 AM
 
11,780 posts, read 8,211,669 times
Reputation: 3425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Your statistics are too old. Progress has been made since. One of them is from way back in 2000!
That's the only worldwide study available. The second study is being worked on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownDenizen View Post
No, it's not a better measure. There are hundreds of conditions you could die from. Cancers are but a handful of those conditions. Americans use the cancer argument because it is something cherry-picked to make the American system look better. You have to look at OVERALL results, not just cancer survival rates.

Overall results are measured by things like life expectancy, diabetes rates, etc. Prevention is just as important as survival rates.
Survival rates are the better measure to use because it tells you the likelihood of success after treatment. You could have the best or worst health system in the world, but if you never need or use the system the only measurements you can obtain will indicate factors such as lifestyle, genetics, diet, etc. If you look at simply life expectancy then Asian American females would top the list, but they have higher income, more education, and a better diet than most other Americans.

For example, if you had to have bypass surgery which country would you choose?

Country A has a lower life expectancy, a very unhealthy population that constantly needs bypass surgeries, but has a result the surgeons have perfected the surgery.

Country B has a higher life expectancy, a very healthy population, but has a dismal survival rate on bypass surgeries due to almost never performing the surgery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownDenizen View Post
But you pay for the cost of others with the American system as well. In fact, the American government pays more per capita for healthcare (ie., out of your taxes) than countries with universal healthcare.

Thus, if you had Canada's or Britain's systems, you would be paying less for the care of others than you are now.
First, Eurostat has data that shows that US government financing is less than other countries. The bulk of the health financing in the USA is private.
Second, the means of financing simply determines how the bill is paid, but the cost remains the same. Whether US hospitals are paid by an insurance company, cash, or the US gov won't change the fact that they have a monopoly over most surgical procedures and can charge whatever they want. Plus, we can't force Dr's to work for the gov or accept any particular type of payment. My dentist for example doesn't take any insurance and nobody can force him to.

Third, just because a country spends less doesn't mean the cost is less. Though I would argue that the cost is more in the states for almost any procedure, but we have a hospital based model, more expensive drugs, newer drugs, prefer name brand over generic drugs, more expensive malpractice premiums*, a more litigious society, and more amenities at our hospitals.

Canada has a very good system, but even they haven't been able to eliminate or even reduce the health income gradient when compared to the USA. Now Vermont is actually adopting (or trying to) a single payer program, but none of their analysts are predicting lower costs. Their cost structure doesn't even change, but instead of paying $150+ for insurance they will have to pay a new 13% payroll tax and a new 10% tax on non wage income.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:53 AM
 
261 posts, read 316,428 times
Reputation: 471
I've always had good health care. Everybody in my family has received good health care. It's true I haven't been outside the US except for a few trips to the Texas/Mexico border, but I really don't know what that has to do with anything. We have wonderful health care in the US, with some of the best medical places in the world, such as the Mayo Clinic and the Texas Medical Center, and the to name a couple off the top of my head.

I can't complain one iota about any of the health care my family or myself has ever received in this country.

I think everybody should have as good of health care as me and my family have received. I don't care who they are or what they do. Everybody deserves good healthcare simply for being human.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:10 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,286 posts, read 16,132,688 times
Reputation: 11269
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyasdf View Post
I heard it on the radio news this afternoon. It was told like it was factual. And my post is not total bs because I also said I would rather get sick in the US than anywhere else in the world. Now, I know for sure that's a fact, so therefore my post was not "total" bs, as you, so all-knowingly and self-assuredly claim.
was that from Sean, Glenn or Rush??

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyasdf View Post
I've always had good health care. Everybody in my family has received good health care. It's true I haven't been outside the US except for a few trips to the Texas/Mexico border, but I really don't know what that has to do with anything. We have wonderful health care in the US, with some of the best medical places in the world, such as the Mayo Clinic and the Texas Medical Center, and the to name a couple off the top of my head.

I can't complain one iota about any of the health care my family or myself has ever received in this country.

I think everybody should have as good of health care as me and my family have received. I don't care who they are or what they do. Everybody deserves good healthcare simply for being human.
you and your family are very fortunate that you can afford all that wonderful healthcare..... or have insurance that covers it for you.... for more and more people in this country, healthcare is becoming an expensive luxury.... even if they have some form of insurance......
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,052 posts, read 2,931,408 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownDenizen View Post
No. I'm Canadian and have had several surgeries. I've never had to wait more than one day. Someone is lying to you, or you're believing the right-wing propaganda. Our system is excellent. And we never have to worry about how we're going to pay for it. Our taxes pay for it.
Obviously your Govt disagrees with you. In fact, your Govt thinks that your Healthcare costs are NOT sustainable. Your Govt is shifting the costs to the Provinces, which is contrary to the spirit of a national Universal HC, is it not? Why?
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Ubique
4,052 posts, read 2,931,408 times
Reputation: 2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
The US Health Care is terrible. It's all about doctors and insurance companies, not about patients. It's also a LOT more expensive than the health taxes people pay in Europe and Canada.
First off, pre-Obamacare, health costs in US were not "A LOT" more, but a "bit more" than the other Welfare Western states.

Our Insurance-based system was the furthest thing from a true Capitalist system. It was heavily regulated, contrived, controlled, constipated, and tethered.

With that aside, US was a leader in cures.

Thirdly, what Marxist rags, like Huffington Post or NY Times, don't tell you is that US has had higher birth rates than the rest of those countries. Births are very expensive, as many of us parents know.

Fourthly, Healthcare Cost / Capita is a a lousy way of judging. I can guarantee you that there are hundreds of other nations that spend less per capita than US.

Given the amount of work-hours that we do, given our higher productivity ($ of product produced per hour) in comparison to rest of the world, results of US healthcare are outstanding.

The other countries, Switzerland, Germany, Sweden included, in light of their unsustainable systems, and aging population will be facing hard choices. Such as even higher taxes, and less service. Go read EU reports.

Fifth, in the last 200 years when Capitalism has reigned supreme, our Society has achieved unprecedented medical advances in curing people.

Socialism's record, on the other hand is atrocious.

If correct health reform were taken, making it more Capitalist than Socialist, our system would be a lot better. Yet we chose same-old, same-old.
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Old 06-24-2014, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,739 posts, read 2,481,723 times
Reputation: 1425
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
That's the only worldwide study available. The second study is being worked on.

Survival rates are the better measure to use because it tells you the likelihood of success after treatment. You could have the best or worst health system in the world, but if you never need or use the system the only measurements you can obtain will indicate factors such as lifestyle, genetics, diet, etc. If you look at simply life expectancy then Asian American females would top the list, but they have higher income, more education, and a better diet than most other Americans.

For example, if you had to have bypass surgery which country would you choose?

Country A has a lower life expectancy, a very unhealthy population that constantly needs bypass surgeries, but has a result the surgeons have perfected the surgery.

Country B has a higher life expectancy, a very healthy population, but has a dismal survival rate on bypass surgeries due to almost never performing the surgery.
I am not sure what you are trying to say here but in terms of cardiology, there are some very good hospitals in Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Whilst in terms of cancer stats there are major problems relating to international stats.

Do we really have the world's best cancer care?


Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
First, Eurostat has data that shows that US government financing is less than other countries. The bulk of the health financing in the USA is private.
I don't think Medicare is cheap and the majority of illness and health spending is in relation to the over 65's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679
Third, just because a country spends less doesn't mean the cost is less. Though I would argue that the cost is more in the states for almost any procedure, but we have a hospital based model, more expensive drugs, newer drugs, prefer name brand over generic drugs, more expensive malpractice premiums*, a more litigious society, and more amenities at our hospitals.
You certainly have more expensive drugs, as for newer drugs they do trial the latest drugs in a host of countries and generic drugs are equally as good as brand name goods, the patent has just expired and other companies can now make them. I also think most countries have a hospital based model in terms of serious illness, although I do agree there are a host of added costs in relation to the US System. As for more amenities in your hospitals, I should point out that major teaching hospitals and specialist hospitals in most first world countries are very well equipped these days.



Last edited by Bamford; 06-24-2014 at 06:44 AM..
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