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Old 07-12-2014, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
20,869 posts, read 22,446,360 times
Reputation: 32615

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30to66at55 View Post
This report is typical propaganda for universal health care.

Anyone who knows someone from Canada or England will tell you how horrible getting fast and good healthcare is in those countries.

You would wait weeks to get the same procedures you get in days here.
What specific procedures takes weeks to get there but days to get there? Give me personal stories and maybe I'll believe it because the people I know who needed treatment for illnesses in both the UK and Canada did not have to wait any longer than anyone here I know of has ever had to. And I personally have had to wait months here in the good old US of A to see a specialist.

My sister lives in Canada and has friends and family on her husband's side of the family. I have also have friends in the UK. They do not complain about their health care. They hear how bad ours is with the high cost and red tape and they sympathize with US citizens for having to put up with it. There may be a small wait for elective surgical procedures but there is normally none for necessary procedures and if there is, at least people know they can get them. And their veterans don't die while waiting for an initial evaluation from a primary care physician as we have seen happening in this country.

I was an insurance health claims examiner for decades. I saw people lose their health insurance when they lost their jobs. It wasn't pretty to have to tell people we couldn't pay for their treatment any longer because no job no insurance which ultimately meant no treatment. Anyone who thinks everyone in who falls in this type of situation has some sort of safety net is living in a fool's Paradise. Prior to the ACA, people died. With the ACA, more people may have access to some health care but many still fall through the cracks because even a little amount of premium is too much if you are out of work and cannot afford the cost.

I had a neighbor in this situation. Her job didn't offer coverage and she earned just slightly too much to qualify for help for Obamacare which she couldn't afford on her salary. So she has to go without coverage and pay a penalty for the privilege. But the penalty is cheaper than the premium.

If all the other countries of the free world considers health care first and foremost a citizen's right, why doesn't the US? The answer is simple. As long as the healthcare industry is a profit making one, and a very lucrative profit making one, things will never get better.

Last year I had a life threatening illness. My one drug alone cost $5,000 for a thirty day supply. I had a Medicare Advantage Plan that paid for some of it until I reached the dreaded donut hole. Before that happened, my portion kept going up and up. My savings kept going down and down. Ironically, my sister in Canada began helping me to pay for the drug. BTW, in Canada it would have cost about $30.00 for the same prescription which is actually manufactured in India for a well known drug company in the US. This is very common. Customer service is not the only things the US outsources.

The huge difference in price is that the Canadian government regulates how much the cost of drugs can be whereas in the US the sky's the limit.

Even if Universal health care meant higher taxes I think it would be worth the price.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:51 AM
 
Location: England
22,240 posts, read 5,505,415 times
Reputation: 29108
I read threads like this with sadness and amazement. A great, rich, country like America, and no universal healthcare for all it's citizens. I won't waste my breath saying the NHS is probably the greatest social advance this country ever did for it's people. Someone will come on to inform me I am wrong, and it's better in the USA.

America always finds money for a war. If a country like Iraq needs invading, the money is always there. Yet, healthcare for all it's citizens is an impossibility. I just don't get it. With universal healthcare, taxes would need to go up, but not by the cost individuals pay now for health insurance.

The real problem seems to be an 'I'm all right Jack' attitude by some. Plus an attitude of 'I'm not responsible for your health care.' Some folks can't seem to see the wood for the trees. The NHS isn't perfect, but it is there to help citizens in times of illness. I rarely see a doctor, but I know if I become ill, the NHS is there to help me with whatever ails me.

I only know what Americans are told about the NHS from forums like C-D. I get the impression the media tries to frighten citizens with stories of poor care. Nobody in England talks about a system different than the NHS, and we sure don't want an American insurance based system.

America is a capitalist country, and believes everything should be run to make a profit. I don't believe this works in the case of health care. The rich seem happy enough getting probably the best health care in the world. For the rest, paying health premiums seems to be getting more, and more difficult.

Getting real change in American healthcare, so all citizens are covered seems impossible because the folks profiting from the system as it stands fight change. Nobody likes tax increases, even if it's for health care for all. We in England pay higher taxes for things like gas...... it's twice the price it is in America. But our roads are still full of cars. It's swings and roundabouts. We pay higher taxes, but don't pay for healthcare insurance. At least the way we do things, if we're ill, and need hospital treatment, we're not worrying about the cost, just about getting well.

I have dealt with the NHS all my life. From my children being born, to my own illnesses, and to my parents dying within this system. I can't praise it highly enough. The American system doesn't seem to be working well for many citizens, for all sorts of reasons. Tinkering round the edges won't work, it needs massive reform to benefit all citizens, not just the financially well off.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:06 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,285 posts, read 16,128,557 times
Reputation: 11269
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
I read threads like this with sadness and amazement. A great, rich, country like America, and no universal healthcare for all it's citizens. I won't waste my breath saying the NHS is probably the greatest social advance this country ever did for it's people. Someone will come on to inform me I am wrong, and it's better in the USA.

America always finds money for a war. If a country like Iraq needs invading, the money is always there. Yet, healthcare for all it's citizens is an impossibility. I just don't get it. With universal healthcare, taxes would need to go up, but not by the cost individuals pay now for health insurance.

The real problem seems to be an 'I'm all right Jack' attitude by some. Plus an attitude of 'I'm not responsible for your health care.' Some folks can't seem to see the wood for the trees. The NHS isn't perfect, but it is there to help citizens in times of illness. I rarely see a doctor, but I know if I become ill, the NHS is there to help me with whatever ails me.

I only know what Americans are told about the NHS from forums like C-D. I get the impression the media tries to frighten citizens with stories of poor care. Nobody in England talks about a system different than the NHS, and we sure don't want an American insurance based system.

America is a capitalist country, and believes everything should be run to make a profit. I don't believe this works in the case of health care. The rich seem happy enough getting probably the best health care in the world. For the rest, paying health premiums seems to be getting more, and more difficult.

Getting real change in American healthcare, so all citizens are covered seems impossible because the folks profiting from the system as it stands fight change. Nobody likes tax increases, even if it's for health care for all. We in England pay higher taxes for things like gas...... it's twice the price it is in America. But our roads are still full of cars. It's swings and roundabouts. We pay higher taxes, but don't pay for healthcare insurance. At least the way we do things, if we're ill, and need hospital treatment, we're not worrying about the cost, just about getting well.

I have dealt with the NHS all my life. From my children being born, to my own illnesses, and to my parents dying within this system. I can't praise it highly enough. The American system doesn't seem to be working well for many citizens, for all sorts of reasons. Tinkering round the edges won't work, it needs massive reform to benefit all citizens, not just the financially well off.

**stands and applauds**

and for those so quick to criticize the ACA, you are right in one sense... it is far from perfect.... the compromises the president was forced to make to appease the insurance and pharma lobbies made sure of that.... but until you can come up with a better and more viable plan, I really don't think you have room to be so critical.....

As for me, I would much rather the $500 a month I pay for health insurance premiums be put into a pool that provides coverage for ALL....
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,123 posts, read 4,577,439 times
Reputation: 3262
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
I read threads like this with sadness and amazement. A great, rich, country like America, and no universal healthcare for all it's citizens. I won't waste my breath saying the NHS is probably the greatest social advance this country ever did for it's people. Someone will come on to inform me I am wrong, and it's better in the USA.

America always finds money for a war. If a country like Iraq needs invading, the money is always there. Yet, healthcare for all it's citizens is an impossibility. I just don't get it. With universal healthcare, taxes would need to go up, but not by the cost individuals pay now for health insurance.

The real problem seems to be an 'I'm all right Jack' attitude by some. Plus an attitude of 'I'm not responsible for your health care.' Some folks can't seem to see the wood for the trees. The NHS isn't perfect, but it is there to help citizens in times of illness. I rarely see a doctor, but I know if I become ill, the NHS is there to help me with whatever ails me.

I only know what Americans are told about the NHS from forums like C-D. I get the impression the media tries to frighten citizens with stories of poor care. Nobody in England talks about a system different than the NHS, and we sure don't want an American insurance based system.

America is a capitalist country, and believes everything should be run to make a profit. I don't believe this works in the case of health care. The rich seem happy enough getting probably the best health care in the world. For the rest, paying health premiums seems to be getting more, and more difficult.

Getting real change in American healthcare, so all citizens are covered seems impossible because the folks profiting from the system as it stands fight change. Nobody likes tax increases, even if it's for health care for all. We in England pay higher taxes for things like gas...... it's twice the price it is in America. But our roads are still full of cars. It's swings and roundabouts. We pay higher taxes, but don't pay for healthcare insurance. At least the way we do things, if we're ill, and need hospital treatment, we're not worrying about the cost, just about getting well.

I have dealt with the NHS all my life. From my children being born, to my own illnesses, and to my parents dying within this system. I can't praise it highly enough. The American system doesn't seem to be working well for many citizens, for all sorts of reasons. Tinkering round the edges won't work, it needs massive reform to benefit all citizens, not just the financially well off.
Yes! Yes! Yes!

It seems the ones who defend the US system the most are the ones who have a good paying job and gold-plated health insurance. They couldn't give a sh*t about the ones who can't afford healthcare.

My husband was one of the first babies born on the Scottish NHS. He was a troublemaker so couldn't be born at home.
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,230,089 times
Reputation: 4399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
What specific procedures takes weeks to get there but days to get there? Give me personal stories and maybe I'll believe it because the people I know who needed treatment for illnesses in both the UK and Canada did not have to wait any longer than anyone here I know of has ever had to. And I personally have had to wait months here in the good old US of A to see a specialist.

My sister lives in Canada and has friends and family on her husband's side of the family. I have also have friends in the UK. They do not complain about their health care. They hear how bad ours is with the high cost and red tape and they sympathize with US citizens for having to put up with it. There may be a small wait for elective surgical procedures but there is normally none for necessary procedures and if there is, at least people know they can get them. And their veterans don't die while waiting for an initial evaluation from a primary care physician as we have seen happening in this country.
That sounds about right. If i need a prescription or need something checked out right away, it's done the same day at the clinic or emerg. Simple diagnostic tests are usually done from the same day to the next week depending. If you are really ill with something, you are streamlined pretty well immediately. BUT if you need some minor to moderately important outpatient surgery, that is when you will wait. It could of course get a lot better, but I don't hate the system, and nor does anyone else I know personally.

Last edited by Jesse44; 07-13-2014 at 07:29 AM..
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:44 AM
 
Location: England
22,240 posts, read 5,505,415 times
Reputation: 29108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
Yes! Yes! Yes!

It seems the ones who defend the US system the most are the ones who have a good paying job and gold-plated health insurance. They couldn't give a sh*t about the ones who can't afford healthcare.

My husband was one of the first babies born on the Scottish NHS. He was a troublemaker so couldn't be born at home.
Sadly, I agree with you Ameriscot. You, as an American, have more knowledge than most of the different health systems in America and the UK. I read a lot of different threads about this subject on C-D.

As you say, the folks with good health insurance seem to boast about their coverage, and say, "it's not my job to pay for your health care." This selfish attitude really puzzles me. Surely, one of the top priorities for a nation is the health of it's citizens. This doesn't seem to be the case in America.

I do understand the difficulties in getting real change in the US. There are so many concerns for citizens other than this subject. Just keeping a job, and paying your way is a priority I guess. But this fear of becoming ill, and the financial cost to uninsured, under insured, and even these days, fully insured folks has to be addressed.

The powerful and rich who profit from the current system, whenever universal healthcare as a subject is raised, bring out the same old stories of bad care, death panels, whatever to frighten the public. Yes, of course the NHS isn't perfect. Stories of things going wrong can always be told, by talking heads on television showing it's faults. But, the proof is in the pudding....... do the general public of the UK wish to change to another sort of health care? They do not.

The NHS is a massive health system, dealing with many millions of citizens every year. For all it's faults, it is highly thought of by British citizens. Something similar in America, surely would cost less than what ordinary folks are getting now with an insurance based system. The profit motive doesn't exist in the NHS. It is a tax based system for the benefit of all citizens. Just too socialist I guess for many in the US.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Gorgeous Scotland
4,123 posts, read 4,577,439 times
Reputation: 3262
Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave View Post
Sadly, I agree with you Ameriscot. You, as an American, have more knowledge than most of the different health systems in America and the UK. I read a lot of different threads about this subject on C-D.

As you say, the folks with good health insurance seem to boast about their coverage, and say, "it's not my job to pay for your health care." This selfish attitude really puzzles me. Surely, one of the top priorities for a nation is the health of it's citizens. This doesn't seem to be the case in America.

I do understand the difficulties in getting real change in the US. There are so many concerns for citizens other than this subject. Just keeping a job, and paying your way is a priority I guess. But this fear of becoming ill, and the financial cost to uninsured, under insured, and even these days, fully insured folks has to be addressed.

The powerful and rich who profit from the current system, whenever universal healthcare as a subject is raised, bring out the same old stories of bad care, death panels, whatever to frighten the public. Yes, of course the NHS isn't perfect. Stories of things going wrong can always be told, by talking heads on television showing it's faults. But, the proof is in the pudding....... do the general public of the UK wish to change to another sort of health care? They do not.

The NHS is a massive health system, dealing with many millions of citizens every year. For all it's faults, it is highly thought of by British citizens. Something similar in America, surely would cost less than what ordinary folks are getting now with an insurance based system. The profit motive doesn't exist in the NHS. It is a tax based system for the benefit of all citizens. Just too socialist I guess for many in the US.
I was 48 when I left the US so I know about having and not having insurance. Many years I had none but fortunately was never seriously ill or injured.

No system is perfect, that's true. But the NHS is massively closer to it than the US.

Switching the US to the same system would be an incredible challenge. The NHS was begun here in 1948 when the population was about 50 million(?). The US is over 300 million.

Yes, Americans hate the word 'socialist' even though there are so many 'socialist' programmes there!
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,079,396 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
I was 48 when I left the US so I know about having and not having insurance. Many years I had none but fortunately was never seriously ill or injured.

No system is perfect, that's true. But the NHS is massively closer to it than the US.

Switching the US to the same system would be an incredible challenge. The NHS was begun here in 1948 when the population was about 50 million(?). The US is over 300 million.

Yes, Americans hate the word 'socialist' even though there are so many 'socialist' programmes there!
And the ironic part is those who use the term Socialist as a way to demonize are typically the ones who receive more than they contribute to the US system.
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: England
22,240 posts, read 5,505,415 times
Reputation: 29108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ameriscot View Post
I was 48 when I left the US so I know about having and not having insurance. Many years I had none but fortunately was never seriously ill or injured.

No system is perfect, that's true. But the NHS is massively closer to it than the US.

Switching the US to the same system would be an incredible challenge. The NHS was begun here in 1948 when the population was about 50 million(?). The US is over 300 million.

Yes, Americans hate the word 'socialist' even though there are so many 'socialist' programmes there!
You're right about bringing in an NHS type system in the US being a massive challenge. I guess it's so big a challenge, it frightens many people in power as being unattainable. All the powerful people who would fight against it tooth and nail must put off many.

But, America has faced many huge challenges in the past, and succeeded. How you get politicians to make this a priority is so difficult. The whole system seems to be about enriching a few at the expense of the many. But, I am sure it could be done with determination by the right people.

We were lucky here in the UK in 1945 that the people voted in a so called 'socialist' government determined to bring in the NHS. Many powerful people like Winston Churchill fought against it. I think today, it would be difficult, if not impossible to bring in such a system if we had similar heathcare to America.

But, America is a democracy, or so we are told. It's up to the people to vote in politicians who are told to make health change a real priority. There doesn't seem a shortage of folks fed up of the current system. The trick is to say to politicians and their cronies "we are sick of hearing about 'death panels' and all such rubbish. Stop lying to us, we want real change. We will vote for people who tell us how this can be done, not, it can't be done."
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
2,868 posts, read 2,844,129 times
Reputation: 3976
No...no surprise... and the answer ISN'T "MORE MONEY" or "MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL" either.
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