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Old 06-16-2014, 08:17 PM
 
8,423 posts, read 8,708,510 times
Reputation: 26236

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChessieMom View Post
I don't believe that study for one minute. I have heard far too many horror stories about insanely long surgery wait times, and other crap. No way would I want to switch to some of those other messes they call health care (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, England, specifically).
I don't think American health care is as bad as some claim it is. In fact, my own experiences are generally positive.

However, you can talk about all the "stories" you want. I invite you some time to do a search here on the Canada or United Kingdom forums. You'll find post after post by citizen of those countries who believe that their health care systems are terrific systems. The origin of most of the stories you hear is some commercial by the health insurance industry trying to convince Americans they don't want national health insurance.

I have also talked to citizens of those countries who are temporarily in the USA. Most of them are very supportive of their systems and emphasize again and again that simply the burden of not having to fear bankruptcy because they couldn't pay their insurance deductibles or co-pay is such an enormous relief that they will accept some delay and some diminution in quality of services.

Perhaps, the systems in other countries have major problems, but the person I would listen to is a resident of those countries, not an American who "hears all these stories".
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,165 posts, read 2,165,742 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I don't think American health care is as bad as some claim it is. In fact, my own experiences are generally positive.

However, you can talk about all the "stories" you want. I invite you some time to do a search here on the Canada or United Kingdom forums. You'll find post after post by citizen of those countries who believe that their health care systems are terrific systems. The origin of most of the stories you hear is some commercial by the health insurance industry trying to convince Americans they don't want national health insurance.

I have also talked to citizens of those countries who are temporarily in the USA. Most of them are very supportive of their systems and emphasize again and again that simply the burden of not having to fear bankruptcy because they couldn't pay their insurance deductibles or co-pay is such an enormous relief that they will accept some delay and some diminution in quality of services.

Perhaps, the systems in other countries have major problems, but the person I would listen to is a resident of those countries, not an American who "hears all these stories".

I laugh when people here all those "stories" about other countries systems. More propaganda from the america is always the best crowd. If other countries systems are so bad, and america's so good then why doesn't the rest of the world adopt the U$ style system then? Do all these posters here who talk about long waits, actually LIVE in those other countries, or is it what they "heard" Even the $7 co-pay for bulk billing that Abbott is proposing is still better than most co-pays in the U$. Medicine that costs me $800 in the $tate$, costs me only $76 down here for the same stuff, and thats with no coverage at all. sorry america-your system isn't the best
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:51 PM
 
Location: South Minneapolis
4,589 posts, read 5,125,850 times
Reputation: 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
^^^How come whenever anyone from Canada mentions their health care system, they always say they think it's a good system? I think I have only read perhaps 2 people who found it not to their liking. Interesting.
Maybe the people you talk to can't afford to come to the US for major medical care. The Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador did saying of his trip to Miami for heart surgery, "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

Wait times in Canada are horrendous and everyone knows it. Soon enough you'll get a chance to find out first hand.

The Checkup - Canadian official has heart surgery -- in the U.S.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Chesapeake Bay
6,048 posts, read 3,689,840 times
Reputation: 3486
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
I doubt most people have better health coverage than I do anywhere in the world. I have excellent health insurance , access to the best hospitals and doctors, MRIs and CT scans with short wait periods. I even have access to the greatest medical facilities in the world such as the Mayo Clinic and Johns Hopkins if I ever needed to go there. How many other people in the world have that?
The problem is some Americans don't have health coverage, but the idea that overall our health care is worse is a lot of biased rubbish.
All the major US metro areas have excellent medical facilities. No question about that. I am on Medicare and have never had one problem or complaint with both hospitals and doctors. I had major surgery several years ago and the healthcare was outstanding.

The operative word though is "access". There are a lot of people in this country who simply do not have health insurance or the means to access good healthcare. If you are in that category ERs are the last resort and once they stabilize your condition, out the door you go. Note - that does not mean that you get comprehensive healthcare, just stop the bleeding (so to speak).

If you mean overall then you must include everyone. And from that point-of-view there are issues. Other countries (say Canada) health care system covers everyone. Not so in the US.

Last edited by Weichert; 06-16-2014 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:46 PM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,308 posts, read 4,062,477 times
Reputation: 4910
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
^^^How come whenever anyone from Canada mentions their health care system, they always say they think it's a good system? I think I have only read perhaps 2 people who found it not to their liking. Interesting. And as far as health care not being a right...do you not think it should be? You don't think having affordable reasonable access to health care is not a right? That's bizarre because I think that is basically the ONE right that every human being on the planet should have.
I agree 100%,and I have also had Canadian and American ex-pat [in England] email pals who absolutely love the Universal health care in those countries....so no way do I believe the BS stories that originate in America[probably from greedy doctors] knocking the health care system in Canada and England!
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: north central Ohio
8,308 posts, read 4,062,477 times
Reputation: 4910
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaveWI View Post
I laugh when people here all those "stories" about other countries systems. More propaganda from the america is always the best crowd. If other countries systems are so bad, and america's so good then why doesn't the rest of the world adopt the U$ style system then? Do all these posters here who talk about long waits, actually LIVE in those other countries, or is it what they "heard" Even the $7 co-pay for bulk billing that Abbott is proposing is still better than most co-pays in the U$. Medicine that costs me $800 in the $tate$, costs me only $76 down here for the same stuff, and thats with no coverage at all. sorry america-your system isn't the best
'American propaganda',you nailed it,exactly!
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,864 posts, read 2,172,923 times
Reputation: 5244
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
The way to improve healthcare is do away with the "fee for service" and take the profit motive out of our health care system.
Again, this is not improving health care this is method of payment (has nothing to do with improving health care). What you want is cheaper health care not improved health care (quantity Vs quality).
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:32 PM
 
8,173 posts, read 5,803,091 times
Reputation: 11631
Like anything else, healthcare is a scarce commodity.... economics 101. With any scarce good you can either ration by price or access. If you ration by price, the richer people tend to get better or more goods/services. If you ration by access, the politically well-connected get better or more goods/services.

Choosing whether to ration by price or access sayss a lot about a society. Americans have traditionally rationed by price because of the American dream of becoming rich and then having access to the best goods and services the world has to offer. Europeans have traditionally chose to ration by access which has resulted in them having a baseline level of service available to everyone, though probably not one that is world-class. Europeans have historically favored politicians and bureaucrats over business. In the US it has been the reverse, though that is changing now that more Americans expect the government to provide for them.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,552 posts, read 15,246,418 times
Reputation: 12064
Quote:
Originally Posted by 30to66at55 View Post
This report is typical propaganda for universal health care.

Anyone who knows someone from Canada or England will tell you how horrible getting fast and good healthcare is in those countries.

You would wait weeks to get the same procedures you get in days here.
Yeah, essentially. I couldn't possible care less about how unfair the US system is that people who buy something are the ones who get it. That said, our healthcare system still sucks. It's really expensive and even for those who have access (eg, pay for their care), it isn't really any better than most of the rest developed world. Quality is all about the same. We just pay a lot more for it than just about anywhere else. We also get dinged for having poor access. Again, I don't particularly care about that. It's more the cost-value that I care about. Of course, if you reduced the cost it would be more accessible as well.
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:41 AM
 
8,367 posts, read 6,188,423 times
Reputation: 10819
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
The way to improve healthcare is do away with the "fee for service" and take the profit motive out of our health care system.
And if you take the motivation for profit out of the system.. Where does the motivation for improving the system come from?

Pharmaceuticals would be a good example. If I own a pharm company.. What is my motivation to invest in research and development of a new drug if profit is removed?

I'm pretty sure you're not talking about removing the liability here, are you? The company comes up with a new drug.. Cleared by the FDA.. Come to find out, it causes spontaneous combustion. Your mother/wife/daughter goes up in a fireball due to this drug that was developed.. Since the company basically makes no profit.. There's nothing for you to sue to get.

Are you OK with that?

You say you have the answer.. Remove the profit.. Now, defend your solution. How does that work? Are you counting on it being a nice little fantasy land that says "Oh, people will do it because it's needed"? Perhaps you think getting the government involved in it to force them to do specific research is the way to do it? What is the motivation if you remove profit? You can't take something away without putting something in its place, so what's your solution?

I still haven't heard anyone say "Yes, I'd like the US Government to control my healthcare. They're doing SUCH a bang-up job with the VA.. That's the kind of people who provide the medical care I expect and want!"

And, remember this.. Everyone who says that the UK/whatever national health system is the best in the world.. If America's system changes, that affects you. Perhaps not positively. US Pharm industry changes overnight. New drug development slows to a halt. Technology companies that create the latest MRI and CAT scan machines.. Development stops. Is that likely? Not on a large scale.. But, there's more considerations than just coming up with simple answers like 'remove profit from the system'.

I'm pretty sure that there's not many people who work a job with only the motivation to "Make the world a better place". Let's take away your paycheck (aka motivation) and see how long you stay there.

Is the US system broken? Yep. Is the solution to put the government in charge of it? Depends if you want the outcome to be an even MORE effed up mess. If you do.. By all means.. About the only way I could support it would be on a state-by-state basis.. The 'board' that decides what is covered, charges, etc being decided at the state level, by officials who are elected by the people of that state. I can't tell you exactly how that might work, but it's the only possible way I could support a system like that in the US. Of course, that state-by-state method has its problems, too.. What if California's healthcare covers lipsuction, but Oregon's doesn't? Illegal back-alley liposuction? Crossing the boarder into California for cheap lipo?
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