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Old 06-21-2014, 09:02 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,839,909 times
Reputation: 9878

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Let's get this out of the way. He should be accused of manslaughter but I would not jail or imprison this person. He is suffering enough. There is no need to make this man's family suffer even more. He will be affected by this his entire life.

This points to a bigger problem in our society. We are consumed by work, not just physically but mentally. How many of us go home but are not really there because we are thinking about work related issues? We are overworked. We don't get enough sleep. We are overstressed. And very few people recognize it or take time to address it in their personal life. I'm a physician. I am overworked. I work long hours. When you work for extended hours, you make mistakes...glaring mistakes. I can recall coming home from overnight shifts and going through a fast food restaurant, paying for an item and then leaving before I get to the second window to pick up the food. Then when I arrived home, I realized I didn't have the food. One time, i was at a four way stop light. I stopped and waited. And then a minute or two later, I slowly pulled into the lane with no other cars present. There was a police officer at one of the other stops and obviously pulled me over for running a red. I was mentally so preoccupied that I didn't even recognize the light didn't turn green. Luckily, there was no accident and no one was injured.

I think all of us need to start taking care of ourselves better and managing our stress. I think his mind was on "autopilot" probably due to feeling overwhelmed or so busy that he was unaware of his immediate surroundings. It has happened to me. You become so focused on something that you tune out everything else.

I recognized the problem. I began to take on less work. I prioritized spending time with my family. I began to prioritize sleep. I took on less activities so my focus can remain with the present. When you try to do too many things, you can become unaware of your surroundings. Since I've done this, nothing like this has ever happened to me. But in our fast paced society, we are so focused on work and getting ahead that it consumes us and accidents like this can happen. I'm sure someone like this is reading this. If this is you, change your life now for the better. Look at this as a warning sign.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:06 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
It was hearing horror stories such as these...or stories about people leaving pets in their vehicles, when I was a CHILD...that created that "common sense", "hyper-vigilance", survival mode sequence in my brain. Honestly, there are times when I've been completely spaced out and overtired, but at those times....there was always self talk going on in my head!

I mean....hey, there have been times when I've been so exhausted and out of it, that I've gone into frickin' panic mode, because I couldn't find my child....only to finally (on the verge of tears!!! ), remember that hubby had taken said child to TOWN with him!!!!! Forget my child or animal in a car? Not once...not ever, and for that, I am extremely grateful for that OC-hyperactive, protective mode. Call it paranoia....but LOL, my children are ALL alive and well and fairly un-traumatized!
My parents were good parents but they forgot my sister who was quiet a couple of times - on one trip everyone needed to get to the bathroom, she patiently waited for her turn and it was last. She was 6 years old and they assumed everyone got back into the car and they drove off without her. Same thing happened to a dog at a rest stop, the dog got out but didn't get back in the car when everyone else did. They were tired, it was midnight, if the dog had got in she would have just gone to sleep with everyone else so they didn't realize until they got all the way home.

They'd have never left my brothers behind because they were rambunctious - you'd know immediately if one wasn't there because it would have been too quiet.

I've never done that because I'm afraid I'd forget which gas station, which exit and have a hard time finding someone left behind so no matter what I count heads -- including all dogs, cats and anyone else who came along. I count heads each and every time even if I'm very sure I'm the only one who got out -- just in case someone woke up and went inside without me seeing them.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,656,439 times
Reputation: 19409
LOL..... You know, there are huge benefits to being a younger child in a large family, married to a man with 10 siblings. Yes.....his parents forgot "the quiet child" at a gas station. Then left another quiet child at home, because they'd run back in to use the bathroom!

To me....that said, "THIS could happen to YOU"....and that's what created the hypervigilance! LOL

I KNEW someone it had happened to. I felt HORRIBLE for them, because I could "imagine" how awful it was for them AND the child. I didn't want to feel that way.....PERSONALLY.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Suburbs,NY_NJ
25 posts, read 32,620 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penga25 View Post
Father Charged With Murder for Leaving Son in Hot Car for Seven Hours

awful scenario all around, unless it was intentional (awful still but different)

how do you forget another human is within 2 feet of you



i can't imagine either Pen.
Hola.

However,before i R.T.J. "rush to judgement"i would have to read this over,the facts surrounding why in the world any astute reasonable minded man/woman would do this.Of course the "key word here is astute"and reasonable. Not sure what happened,i have to read this.how awful.

RIP
SMH

adios.


------
Love Law,Writing,Music Lover.
"Shall procure mi Juris Doctor soon enough..."
"Love making a positive difference 24/7."
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:12 PM
 
1,677 posts, read 1,967,663 times
Reputation: 5475
Unless it's a deliberate act, like a parent leaving their child locked in the car while they grocery shop, are at a bar, strip club, casino, beauty salon, or just plain don't want to pay for a babysitter, I don't understand harsh charges like murder and all the judgment. There must be more to this story than we know if the dad is being charged with murder.

As far as how a parent can forget their child, it can happen. As perfect as some might want you to believe they are, no one sits and thinks about their child every second unless they have some sort of neurosis. For a parent who's routine does not normally involve dropping the child off, they can very easily slip into their usual routine. My mind is programmed to pick up my dd from after school care at her school every day. On days when it was a school holiday and she was in full day care off site, I would find myself automatically driving to her school because that's what I was used to doing. Once I even pulled into the parking lot, wondering why it looked so empty. I dropped her off at the off site center that morning, but by that afternoon, my mind had slipped back into it's normal routine. So I totally get how the reverse can happen, a parent who normally doesn't drop the child off puts the child in the carseat with every intention of taking him to daycare, then slip back into the usual pattern. The teddy bear or the purse near the carseat is a great idea, even for those parents who are so convinced this could NEVER happen to them.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:13 PM
 
Location: southern kansas
7,593 posts, read 5,105,718 times
Reputation: 16295
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
You didn't tie a child up and strap him down in a car seat in the 70s and people didn't have windows shut tight because of air conditioners, and it was common then for children to ride in the front seat, next to their parents. Putting infants in the back seat is just asking for trouble -- especially when people get into a routine and then change it, baby falls asleep, the parent is busy, tired, stressed, preoccupied, and can forget that it was their day to take the child to the sitters.

Now they're telling people to also put their cell phone in the back seat because for some reason people remember their cell phones better and when they go to get their cell phones, they might see the baby is there.
That's a good suggestion. It's also where the cell phone should be anyway.... away from the driver.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 9,656,439 times
Reputation: 19409
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaNomus View Post
Unless it's a deliberate act, like a parent leaving their child locked in the car while they grocery shop, are at a bar, strip club, casino, beauty salon, or just plain don't want to pay for a babysitter, I don't understand harsh charges like murder and all the judgment. There must be more to this story than we know if the dad is being charged with murder.

As far as how a parent can forget their child, it can happen. As perfect as some might want you to believe they are, no one sits and thinks about their child every second unless they have some sort of neurosis. For a parent who's routine does not normally involve dropping the child off, they can very easily slip into their usual routine. My mind is programmed to pick up my dd from after school care at her school every day. On days when it was a school holiday and she was in full day care off site, I would find myself automatically driving to her school because that's what I was used to doing. Once I even pulled into the parking lot, wondering why it looked so empty. I dropped her off at the off site center that morning, but by that afternoon, my mind had slipped back into it's normal routine. So I totally get how the reverse can happen, a parent who normally doesn't drop the child off puts the child in the carseat with every intention of taking him to daycare, then slip back into the usual pattern. The teddy bear or the purse near the carseat is a great idea, even for those parents who are so convinced this could NEVER happen to them.
Now, now...... that's just silly. If I didn't know you better, and know you didn't mean it this way...but ya almost sound like you're saying, "If you've never allowed yourself to ______, you suffer from a neurosis". Of course people don't think about their child every second of every minute of every hour, buuuuuut.... ?

Seriously, no one's judging all of the many people who "forget" their child once in a while...I mean, it happens! When we're talking HOURS, sometimes......OMG! I guess it's a good thing I didn't have quiet kids, eh? Although....if my children or grandchild get quiet, I'm generally checkin the rearview mirror and thinking, "Sh*t....I'm gonna have to either wake them up or carry them!" ...so still? Nah, they don't get forgotten. Good thing I've got active, talkative kids.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:54 PM
YAZ
 
Location: Phoenix,AZ
7,067 posts, read 11,441,282 times
Reputation: 6281
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Let's get this out of the way. He should be accused of manslaughter but I would not jail or imprison this person. He is suffering enough. There is no need to make this man's family suffer even more. He will be affected by this his entire life.

This points to a bigger problem in our society. We are consumed by work, not just physically but mentally. How many of us go home but are not really there because we are thinking about work related issues? We are overworked. We don't get enough sleep. We are overstressed. And very few people recognize it or take time to address it in their personal life. I'm a physician. I am overworked. I work long hours. When you work for extended hours, you make mistakes...glaring mistakes. I can recall coming home from overnight shifts and going through a fast food restaurant, paying for an item and then leaving before I get to the second window to pick up the food. Then when I arrived home, I realized I didn't have the food. One time, i was at a four way stop light. I stopped and waited. And then a minute or two later, I slowly pulled into the lane with no other cars present. There was a police officer at one of the other stops and obviously pulled me over for running a red. I was mentally so preoccupied that I didn't even recognize the light didn't turn green. Luckily, there was no accident and no one was injured.

I think all of us need to start taking care of ourselves better and managing our stress. I think his mind was on "autopilot" probably due to feeling overwhelmed or so busy that he was unaware of his immediate surroundings. It has happened to me. You become so focused on something that you tune out everything else.

I recognized the problem. I began to take on less work. I prioritized spending time with my family. I began to prioritize sleep. I took on less activities so my focus can remain with the present. When you try to do too many things, you can become unaware of your surroundings. Since I've done this, nothing like this has ever happened to me. But in our fast paced society, we are so focused on work and getting ahead that it consumes us and accidents like this can happen. I'm sure someone like this is reading this. If this is you, change your life now for the better. Look at this as a warning sign.
Our own AZ guy just got sentenced to four years....different set of circumstances....



Arizona man sentenced to four years prison in baby's hot car death | Reuters
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:08 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
You would think that just hearing about the earlier cases, people would do whatever it takes to prevent this -- including leaving car windows down, putting the infant in the front seat -- something. It's like swimming pools though -- no matter how many cases the summer before, you know that any any good sized city, there will be a number of children drowning in pools each summer.

Very often parents were near by -- but not paying attention. Didn't think a fence around the pool was worth the money.

Life can be so very fragile, so quickly ended.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:20 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
27,252 posts, read 15,040,977 times
Reputation: 20857
Quote:
Originally Posted by pythonis View Post
In the 70s cars didnt have computers that controlled the cars. A kid was smart enough to roll the windows down if they got hot and the parents werent filling the kids heads with all sorts of paranoia about stalkers, kidnappers, and pedophiles. Also, babysitters could be found for around 50 cents an hour.
Cool story but infants can't roll the window down. Babysitters wouldn't help as most of these folks were already SUPPOSED TO BE heading to the daycare when these tragedies happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I can't imagine the grief that guy is going to carry with him for the rest of his life. He's ruined. He'll never be right.
That was one of the saddest articles I have ever read. Ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transdimensionalhottie View Post
I love how so many people are willing to compare forgetting a child to forgetting your keys, or lunch, etc. A child is not an inanimate object. And considering just how many people will freak out if you compare a pet to a child, its surprising always to see a child compared to an object.

Yeah its normal to be absent minded, and forgetful, and to have a million thoughts on your head, but if you aren't thinking once per hour about your child then you should really consider the life you are leading before you end up in a situation like this man.

When you supposedly love someone more than anything on earth, like your children, and you haven't thought about them in 7 hours... how much do you really "love" them? "hey I wonder what my kid is up to at daycare, etc"
Maybe its just me, but I think about the people I love every hour.
But, in their mind, their kids were at daycare; they had dropped them off at daycare - when they thought about them, that's what they thought.

Do I think about my loved ones every HOUR while at work? Uh. . . no. My work requires a great deal of concentration and add in about 10 people interrupting me every 15 minutes . . I don't even remember to eat half the time.

Personally, I'll bet every working mother realizes just how easy it would be for this to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
Going back to the Wash Post article, it was interesting that a couple of the experts were saying that when it comes to awareness or training or inventing products that would prevent an incident like this happening, most people act like the people on this thread: "how stupid can you be?" "I love my kids." "This could never happen to me.", etc. They think they'd never need awareness or to buy a gadget. The people it happened to probably thought it could never happen to them, either.
I think we see that in this thread as well. Blame and vitriol means it can't happen to them. Heck, people even blame cancer victims when they die. "Well, they shouldn't have gone to the tanning bed when they were 13'. Anything to separate US from THEM, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
My heart breaks for this family. There but for the grace of God go I. I will never forget the day I forgot my dd was in the car with me. It was a hot summer day. Dh normally dropped her off at day care on his way to work but I needed to drop her off that day because he had to go in early. To go to the day care, I needed to turn right out of our sub but without thinking made my normal left (she was very quiet in the back seat in a rear facing seat). Once I made that left, I swear I was on auto pilot. She never made a peep the entire trip. I have no idea what made me look back at the car when I got out after parking but thank God I did. I saw her move her hand. For a moment I was confused as to why she was in the car. I don't get how I could completely forget that she was in the car but I did. Once I made that left, it was any normal day and in my mind dh was dropping her off to day care. I thank God I looked back and saw her move her hand.

I recommend that all parents have a teddy bear that sits in the car seat when the child isn't in the car seat and up front with you when the child is in the car seat. The human brain does not process everything we experience. It would overload if it did. It will go on auto pilot to conserve energy. Years ago, I had a 45 mile commute to work and the number of days when I pulled into the parking lot and had absolutely no recollection of having driven those 45 miles is scary. We are creatures of habit and that unfortunately can result in tragedies like this.
Thank you for sharing. I'll bet every woman I work with can identify with this story. Your mental rolodex is rolling; your stressed-out mind is whirring, and how easy it would be . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Let's get this out of the way. He should be accused of manslaughter but I would not jail or imprison this person. He is suffering enough. There is no need to make this man's family suffer even more. He will be affected by this his entire life.

This points to a bigger problem in our society. We are consumed by work, not just physically but mentally. How many of us go home but are not really there because we are thinking about work related issues? We are overworked. We don't get enough sleep. We are overstressed. And very few people recognize it or take time to address it in their personal life. I'm a physician. I am overworked. I work long hours. When you work for extended hours, you make mistakes...glaring mistakes. I can recall coming home from overnight shifts and going through a fast food restaurant, paying for an item and then leaving before I get to the second window to pick up the food. Then when I arrived home, I realized I didn't have the food. One time, i was at a four way stop light. I stopped and waited. And then a minute or two later, I slowly pulled into the lane with no other cars present. There was a police officer at one of the other stops and obviously pulled me over for running a red. I was mentally so preoccupied that I didn't even recognize the light didn't turn green. Luckily, there was no accident and no one was injured.

I think all of us need to start taking care of ourselves better and managing our stress. I think his mind was on "autopilot" probably due to feeling overwhelmed or so busy that he was unaware of his immediate surroundings. It has happened to me. You become so focused on something that you tune out everything else.

I recognized the problem. I began to take on less work. I prioritized spending time with my family. I began to prioritize sleep. I took on less activities so my focus can remain with the present. When you try to do too many things, you can become unaware of your surroundings. Since I've done this, nothing like this has ever happened to me. But in our fast paced society, we are so focused on work and getting ahead that it consumes us and accidents like this can happen. I'm sure someone like this is reading this. If this is you, change your life now for the better. Look at this as a warning sign.
I agree with you 100%. It's good you recognized it. I changed jobs when I visited my physician wanting something for anxiety. I intended to work while in the waiting room and about freaked out when I realized I hadn't brought my work with me. To the doctor's office. Right after that visit, I went to the drive-through at the bank and drove off with the metal container/tube that you put your stuff in at the window. I drove back to the bank and gave it to them.

Then I started looking for other jobs and found one. I still have my days . . . but not as many. I managed to raise my son to age 19; he's busy in college and taking care of himself.

Often, I don't know how I did it.
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