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Old 08-05-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,808,806 times
Reputation: 6371

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Yea, the same is not true for ebola though.

Now it may become


"May" being the operative word here. People are becoming hysterical over something that is a distant possibility at best.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Type 0.7 Kardashev
10,577 posts, read 6,869,365 times
Reputation: 37352
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Yea, the same is not true for ebola though.

I don't care how small the risk is. It was zero before - unless you went to Africa which I absolutely wouldn't have. Now it may become an actual risk here - no matter how small. I don't want it to be there; I don't want to think about even the tiniest probability of contracting it out and about. I freak out enough about the germs as it is when I take my kid to the pediatrician's office - but at least I knew that with any regular illness, he'll have a fever and cough for a few days and then he'll be fine. I don't want to worry about a disease that dissolves internal organs, even if it's a 0.001% risk. I'm angry that they've let it get to the point where I even need to be thinking about this, and they're still not taking any real steps to prevent more cases here. I'm pissed off.
The Ebola virus has been in the United States in research laboratories for decades. It hasn't suddenly appeared in the last few days.

The simple reality is that allowing American citizens with Ebola into America (gee, what a novel concept...) makes us all safer. How? By encouraging capable physicians to travel to Africa to combat Ebola, knowing that if they do contract the disease in the abysmal third-world facilities there, they will be properly taken care of by their own government. This helps stop the spread of the disease where it is - in Africa.

That is containment - not pretending we can just lock the door on the rest of the world in this age of widespread, cheap and convenient global travel. The latter is both laughable and hopelessly naive.

The problem with the hand-wringers is that they cannot differentiate between Ebola's lethality (very high) and its contagiousness (low, and easily-managed by modern first-world medical facilities).

People need to heed physicians who specialize in infectious diseases, not attention-whores such as Donald Trump, or people who admit they can't even go to a clinic without, and I quote, a 'freak out'.
Why You Shouldn't Be Afraid Of The Ebola Virus Spreading In The U.S.
[yes, yes, I know - the tinfoil-hattery is queuing itself up]

People need to start thinking, not acting irrationally.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
41,280 posts, read 32,959,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
The only evidence that Ebola has ever been airborne is solely linked to Ebola Reston, which was/is not infectious to humans. Case in point, at Reston, the monkeys all died of Ebola, but their handlers, even with having tremendous exposure, did not become infected.

There was a limited study involving pigs and macaques a few years ago, but the questions presented in that study tended to hinge more on whether pigs on a physiological level were capable of generating more infectious aerosols than humans do.


The strain of Ebola we are discussing is a variant Ebola Zaire, which transmits only through exchange of bodily fluids, and has done so consistently for about 40 years now. One of the most famous cases, Nurse Mayinga, had close contact with a considerable amount of people, even while infected, and yet very few ended up becoming infected themselves.

Its not nearly as infectious as the hysterics are claiming. This is like the AIDS scare all over again.
Well, I'm not a "hysteric." I'm watching this with some interest, however, because...well, because this sort of thing interests me. I found it interesting that the Canadian website specifically states that there is a strong suspicion that the Ebola virus can be transmitted via air.

It's also interesting to me since my husband and I travel through international airports regularly, and since he also worked extensively for many years in West Africa, including Liberia, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, and Nigeria (going through the Lagos airport on a regular basis). He consequently and unfortunately rather frequently brought home some odd African illnesses which we didn't have immunity built up against and we both got sick several times. He has been quarantined as well as isolated several times while over there.

So I have a natural and understandable interest in this story.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,808,806 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Well, I'm not a "hysteric." I'm watching this with some interest, however, because...well, because this sort of thing interests me. I found it interesting that the Canadian website specifically states that there is a strong suspicion that the Ebola virus can be transmitted via air.

It's also interesting to me since my husband and I travel through international airports regularly, and since he also worked extensively for many years in West Africa, including Liberia, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, and Nigeria (going through the Lagos airport on a regular basis). He consequently and unfortunately rather frequently brought home some odd African illnesses which we didn't have immunity built up against and we both got sick several times. He has been quarantined as well as isolated several times while over there.

So I have a natural and understandable interest in this story.


Your husband's experiences, as well as your own, detail a perfect truth that became evident to me shortly after beginning my microbiology studies.



We.are.not.in.control



In many ways we live at the mercy of these miniscule microorganisms which are far better able to adapt and evolve than we are. If it came down to an "us vs them" arrangement, it would be them, and we would be merely the latest species to go extinct.


If you talk to an infectious disease expert, the flu is still the most widely feared disease that exists, well beyond Ebola or any other exotic diseases, and for the simple reason that the flu is already incredibly efficient in how it is transmitted, another strain similar to what we saw in 1918 and hundreds of millions of lives would shortly be at risk.




I'll bet that lost in the midst of this Ebola hysteria, people may not have noticed that particular strains of the bird flu going around bear a remarkable similarity to the 1918 virus.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...iclekey=178944


Quote:
Flu viruses currently circulating in birds closely resemble the one that caused the 1918 pandemic that killed about 50 million people worldwide, researchers say.

Only a few differences separate proteins in current flu viruses found in birds and proteins in the virus that caused the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic, the investigators found.

This suggests that a similar deadly virus could emerge in the near future, according to the authors of the study published June 11 in the journal Cell Host & Microbe.

"Because avian [bird] influenza viruses in nature require only a few changes to adapt to humans and cause a pandemic, it is important to understand the mechanisms involved in adaptation and identify the key mutations so we can be better prepared," senior author Yoshihiro Kawaoka, of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, said in a journal news release






The reality is that there are a lot of diseases out there, many far more likely to threaten you than Ebola or other such diseases which while dangerous, pale in terms of their ability to transmit and infect others when compared to the flu, MRSA and more. There's no more reason to fear Ebola than to fear Marburg or Lassa or Hanta(which is actually in the U.S.), its just media sensationalism and hype designed to sell stories.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:27 PM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,044,958 times
Reputation: 2136
I don't think it's unreasonable to be a little cautious about airborne transmission of Ebola. Viruses do mutate, and if someone symptomatic coughed right up close in your face, you're at very real risk of contagion, but by the same token, people need to understand that as it is now, Ebola is really quite fragile outside of body fluids. It's not like the flu and can't spread in the same manner.

The chances of being infected from Ebola through some form of airborne contact is deemed to be incredibly low, especially since someone who is symptomatic is going to look really ill and (hopefully) avoidable. If you practice good hygiene and sanitation, and use a lick of common sense, you will be fine.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,601 posts, read 9,463,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Because they weren't wearing "state of the art protective gear." Because every medical professional, no matter how well trained, is still a human and when you are exposed to the infected, day in and day out, your probability of becoming infected becomes substantially higher, regardless of what protection you might use. "To err is to be human." Doctors make mistakes, nurses make mistakes, sometimes its merely an inevitability when you're operating out of third world medical facilities with third world equipment and protection. Its the risk that these folks take on each and every single day.



Its kind of ironic that in your attempt to condemn assumptions, you seem to be making quite a few of your own.
You are spending considerable time and energy downplaying the concerns of the American Public over this. Why? I ask again. What is the harm in assuming the worst? I can easily see the harm in assuming there is little risk. 100 health care workers have died in West Africa and you would be right that the majority of them were not wearing state of the art protective gear. I would assume that a doctor would be of more value and they would take more precautions? Or... idd they, like yourself, feel that the risks were minimal and .... ... you know... the more you go on in this vein of dismissal the worse feeling I have about the whole thing because IF America has done experiments with vaccines effective enough on Ebola to be used on the two Americans being brought here for treatment I am surely not alone in wondering why these drugs wouldn't already be in Africa being tested in this present outbreak.

H
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,808,806 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You are spending considerable time and energy downplaying the concerns of the American Public over this. Why? I ask again. What is the harm in assuming the worst? I can easily see the harm in assuming there is little risk. 100 health care workers have died in West Africa and you would be right that the majority of them were not wearing state of the art protective gear. I would assume that a doctor would be of more value and they would take more precautions? Or... idd they, like yourself, feel that the risks were minimal and .... ... you know... the more you go on in this vein of dismissal the worse feeling I have about the whole thing because IF America has done experiments with vaccines effective enough on Ebola to be used on the two Americans being brought here for treatment I am surely not alone in wondering why these drugs wouldn't already be in Africa being tested in this present outbreak.

H



Because there's a lot of absurd and blatantly false claims being made that have no basis in reality.


Panic based on ignorance never benefits anyone other than the media, particularly the ignorant. That's not what the media wants however. Fear sells, logic and rationality, not so much.





Quote:
IF America has done experiments with vaccines effective enough on Ebola to be used on the two Americans being brought here for treatment
PS-Vaccines are used to prevent a disease, not to treat it. Ebola vaccines have been worked on since the 80's, with limited success since the rarity of the disease and ethical considerations limit the normal testing protocols. However since these individuals were already infected, they were given an experimental serum that would only be legal to give to those who are already on the verge of death.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:32 PM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,044,958 times
Reputation: 2136
To Kathryn's point, I wonder how many people who do not have experience with a lot of travel realize how very common "gastrointestinal distress" is as a souvenir for your travels. You don't even have to travel to a third world country, either. Some people have iron constitutions but a lot of people can't even switch drinking water from a faucet between one locale and the next without their bodies needing to go through a period of "adjustment."
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:36 PM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,044,958 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
You are spending considerable time and energy downplaying the concerns of the American Public over this. Why? I ask again. What is the harm in assuming the worst? I can easily see the harm in assuming there is little risk. 100 health care workers have died in West Africa and you would be right that the majority of them were not wearing state of the art protective gear. I would assume that a doctor would be of more value and they would take more precautions? Or... idd they, like yourself, feel that the risks were minimal and .... ... you know... the more you go on in this vein of dismissal the worse feeling I have about the whole thing because IF America has done experiments with vaccines effective enough on Ebola to be used on the two Americans being brought here for treatment I am surely not alone in wondering why these drugs wouldn't already be in Africa being tested in this present outbreak.

H
You seem to have missed where it has been mentioned at least twice in this thread, that the serum was in an experimental status, still being tested on animals. It has not been approved for testing on humans, and is thusly very limited in supply and very expensive to create. The two doctors were administered the serum knowing it was highly experimental and had never been tested on humans to date.

It galls me somewhat how little people actually understand how difficult and time consuming it is to create new vaccines and medications for treatment and then to manufacture them to meet demand outside of Hollywood blockbuster movies.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:44 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,317,055 times
Reputation: 5542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsettomati View Post
The Ebola virus has been in the United States in research laboratories for decades. It hasn't suddenly appeared in the last few days.

The simple reality is that allowing American citizens with Ebola into America (gee, what a novel concept...) makes us all safer. How? By encouraging capable physicians to travel to Africa to combat Ebola, knowing that if they do contract the disease in the abysmal third-world facilities there, they will be properly taken care of by their own government. This helps stop the spread of the disease where it is - in Africa.

That is containment - not pretending we can just lock the door on the rest of the world in this age of widespread, cheap and convenient global travel. The latter is both laughable and hopelessly naive.

The problem with the hand-wringers is that they cannot differentiate between Ebola's lethality (very high) and its contagiousness (low, and easily-managed by modern first-world medical facilities).

People need to heed physicians who specialize in infectious diseases, not attention-whores such as Donald Trump, or people who admit they can't even go to a clinic without, and I quote, a 'freak out'.
Why You Shouldn't Be Afraid Of The Ebola Virus Spreading In The U.S.
[yes, yes, I know - the tinfoil-hattery is queuing itself up]

People need to start thinking, not acting irrationally.
I wasn't talking about the two Americans brought back to Atlanta btw.
That is maybe a miniscule risk but I'm not too worried about that - they're being contained, precautions taken. They're the least of the worries here.
Much more worrisome is the fact that travel is still wide open and people - regular people, not-too-bright people, not medical professionals - are travelling from the affected areas freely, perhaps not knowing they're already infected. If they are, and they come back here and get sick, where and how their symptoms will show up and how many people they'll be in contact with between getting sick and actually being isolated in hospital, is a coin toss. Family members, coworkers, public bathrooms, public transit, waiting rooms, intake counters, there's plenty of opportunity for one person to infect at least a few more, and it goes exponentially from there.

A person who starts feeling sick does not suddenly and magically get teleported into a secure isolation room without coming into contact with anyone or anything in the process
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