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Old 08-05-2014, 12:56 PM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,098,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
I wasn't talking about the two Americans brought back to Atlanta btw.
That is maybe a miniscule risk but I'm not too worried about that - they're being contained, precautions taken. They're the least of the worries here.
Much more worrisome is the fact that travel is still wide open and people - regular people, not-too-bright people, not medical professionals - are travelling from the affected areas freely, perhaps not knowing they're already infected. If they are, and they come back here and get sick, where and how their symptoms will show up and how many people they'll be in contact with between getting sick and actually being isolated in hospital, is a coin toss. Family members, coworkers, public bathrooms, public transit, waiting rooms, intake counters, there's plenty of opportunity for one person to infect at least a few more, and it goes exponentially from there.

A person who starts feeling sick does not suddenly and magically get transported into a secure isolation room without coming into contact with anyone or anything in the process
Until they are symptomatic, they are not contagious.

I agree that the people they come into contact with once they become "sick" is a concern, but I would hope that anyone suspecting they're ill and with real cause to believe it was ebola would seriously minimize contact with everyone and call officials to aid in them reaching a secure medical facility for testing.

I actually shudder to think how many 911 calls and emergency room visits are happening around the country from alarmists freaking out because they've got some every day garden variety gastrointestinal bug and have traveled no further than their local grocery store in the past 3 years but are convinced they're dying and deadly infectious.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,939,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post

I actually shudder to think how many 911 calls and emergency room visits are happening around the country from alarmists freaking out because they've got some every day garden variety gastrointestinal bug and have traveled no further than their local grocery store in the past 3 years but are convinced they're dying and deadly infectious.

And in the case of an actual outbreak, thats exactly the thing that would tie resources up and delay care to all of those who really need it with the hypochondriacs and the people getting their information from third rate conspiracy sites coming out of the woodwork.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:14 PM
 
40,029 posts, read 24,286,353 times
Reputation: 12595
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post
Until they are symptomatic, they are not contagious.

I agree that the people they come into contact with once they become "sick" is a concern, but I would hope that anyone suspecting they're ill and with real cause to believe it was ebola would seriously minimize contact with everyone and call officials to aid in them reaching a secure medical facility for testing.

I actually shudder to think how many 911 calls and emergency room visits are happening around the country from alarmists freaking out because they've got some every day garden variety gastrointestinal bug and have traveled no further than their local grocery store in the past 3 years but are convinced they're dying and deadly infectious.
And that's the harm. People panicking and overloading our medical system because of the vast amount of misinformation being shared about Ebola. People panicking and shooting someone who's got a runny nose because they were afraid of Ebola. People making decisions based on fear, rather than based an facts.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:14 PM
 
3,983 posts, read 5,750,350 times
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Something that is often never mentioned by the freak-out age of "journalism" is that, throughout history, the most virulent of diseases also tend to be the ones that are mostly self-limiting as they tend to completely incapacitate their victims at the point where they are most contagious. Also, too many people think that contraction is a foregone conclusion by merely being in the presence of this pathogen. If that was the case, everyone in W. Africa would be infected. The number of infected is actually very, very small. The average person has a much higher chance of being killed by influenza.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,608 posts, read 9,820,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post
I agree that the people they come into contact with once they become "sick" is a concern, but I would hope that anyone suspecting they're ill and with real cause to believe it was ebola would seriously minimize contact with everyone and call officials to aid in them reaching a secure medical facility for testing.
And this is exactly what we are seeing right? That's why that guy they pulled off a plane headed for Minneapolis died just days later. Because he was healthy as a horse. Or is it more the reality that when people become catastrophically ill they develop an overriding urge to return home, wherever that may be and by whatever means necessary. I won't go as far as to say that they also develop and irresistible urge to infect as many healthy people as possible but... ... Typhoid Mary was a real person, so have been a number of other so called "super spreaders" of illnesses like AIDS and SARS. One Ebola super spreader could do a lot of harm despite your assurances to the contrary. I guess I did go as far as to say that people sick with Ebola might not behave as civilly as you would hope. You wouldn't guess it from recent posts but I am usually on the side of reason and restraint.

H
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,768 posts, read 14,911,723 times
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We lose about 30,000 people to flu in our country every year. The public doesn't freak out about that because the children writing for our media don't freak out about it.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:49 PM
 
9,229 posts, read 4,249,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert_The_Crocodile View Post
This is exactly the thing that has concerned me the most for the last several weeks. Typically, Ebola outbreaks occur in relatively remote areas, some distance from international airports. The grim calculus of the disease is such that most people who contract it in remote areas don't live long enough to get outside that isolated area and spread it. But in this outbreak, several of the "hot zones" have international airports in their boundaries. Someone can easily become infected, and 12 to 16 hours later be in New York City, before they're even symptomatic. One flight to Madrid or London, a quick transfer to a transoceanic flight, and here it is.
Many countries are restricting flights and people from those areas from entering their country, even if they appear healthy.
We on the other hand are bringing them over.

Brilliant!
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:59 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,463,916 times
Reputation: 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
And this is exactly what we are seeing right? That's why that guy they pulled off a plane headed for Minneapolis died just days later. Because he was healthy as a horse. Or is it more the reality that when people become catastrophically ill they develop an overriding urge to return home, wherever that may be and by whatever means necessary. I won't go as far as to say that they also develop and irresistible urge to infect as many healthy people as possible but... ... Typhoid Mary was a real person, so have been a number of other so called "super spreaders" of illnesses like AIDS and SARS. One Ebola super spreader could do a lot of harm despite your assurances to the contrary. I guess I did go as far as to say that people sick with Ebola might not behave as civilly as you would hope. You wouldn't guess it from recent posts but I am usually on the side of reason and restraint.

H
No kidding.
I mean perfectly healthy people could start with at least washing their hands - well, not a one-second rinse - after using the restroom. That one simple little thing could've made norovirus close to obsolete - and yet it isn't, it's caught from fecal bacteria which is apparently everywhere on common public surfaces. Hmm, how does it get there.
Yea, I have pretty much zero trust in people being careful and smart about this.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
3,510 posts, read 2,939,712 times
Reputation: 6379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
And this is exactly what we are seeing right? That's why that guy they pulled off a plane headed for Minneapolis died just days later. Because he was healthy as a horse. Or is it more the reality that when people become catastrophically ill they develop an overriding urge to return home, wherever that may be and by whatever means necessary. I won't go as far as to say that they also develop and irresistible urge to infect as many healthy people as possible but... ... Typhoid Mary was a real person, so have been a number of other so called "super spreaders" of illnesses like AIDS and SARS. One Ebola super spreader could do a lot of harm despite your assurances to the contrary. I guess I did go as far as to say that people sick with Ebola might not behave as civilly as you would hope. You wouldn't guess it from recent posts but I am usually on the side of reason and restraint.

H



People who are infected with Ebola, once symptomatic tend to have the constitution of an arthritic 85 year old. They are barely able to walk, let alone frolic about to spread the disease. In this capacity, Ebola is very much self limiting.
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,608 posts, read 9,820,285 times
Reputation: 9236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post
It galls me somewhat how little people actually understand how difficult and time consuming it is to create new vaccines and medications for treatment and then to manufacture them to meet demand outside of Hollywood blockbuster movies.
It galls me a lot, how little Big Pharma understands about their mandate to society, and how much wasted R&D energy there is going into designer drugs, etc. Ebola has been simmering away in East Africa all my life. So has Hep C although not in Africa. Big Pharma has had nothing but time to come up with a response! Recently, a treatment, not a vaccine, for Hep C has been approved but the stuff is so expensive that no insurance company will pay for it. The transmission models of Ebola and Hep C are similar. What good would an Ebola vaccine do for anyone if it cost $100K? But why don't we have one yet? You go ahead and defend the indefensible. I will question and wonder out loud about the depraved indifference of Big Pharma. Someone has to.

There isn't any big money to be made in saving African lives and there isn't any good will to help people who fall ill with AIDS or various kinds of Hepatitis because they are usually societal outcasts. Treatments are for the occasional collateral contacts with the seamier denizens of society and they have the wherewithal to pay the outrageous sums that Big Pharma asks for when lives are on the line. This is the canary in the coal mine keeling over. We are getting closer and closer to that Outbreak event that shows just how unprepared we are for real trouble via a disease outbreak.

The U.S. needs to take over and nationalize a bio-tech or pharmaceutical company and put them to the good work of saving humanity. The usual suspects are too busy lining their pockets to notice that with a warming world, microbes that were once delicate and easily erradicated by nothing more than time and isolation can now have a somewhat increased active life. Somewhat is all that stood between the intense, but short, outbreaks of Ebola in East Africa and the present much more prolonged outbreak in West Africa. By some of the comments here there should not be any response by medical personnel in Africa. It is all simply hysteria over nothing much. Ebola can't survive in the U.S. Really? Some of you haven't looked at a weather report in awhile.

H
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