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Old 08-06-2014, 04:54 PM
 
8,178 posts, read 6,024,353 times
Reputation: 10575

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Your basic U.S. clinic has the ability to contain an Ebola infection. If it can be done in the most primitive healthcare facilities in third world nations in Africa, it can be done here. You don't need a biocontainment unit, just a clean facility with well trained healthcare personnel.
The last part of what you said is the problem.. While we have the ability to contain it.. I don't know that we have the training to recognize it. And even if we did.. Would the doctors believe what they were seeing? Right now, with the hype about it, i'm sure.. But.. If someone flew back from London, collapsed on the plane 6 months ago with a high fever.. Would the doc's first assumption be Ebola?

I don't disagree with you in general, tho.

One interesting thing.. Tobacco-derived 'plantibodies' enter the fight against Ebola | Fox News

Oh, the bane of everyone's existence.. The plant that kills more people than any other in the world.. Is being used to combat Ebola.
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Old 08-06-2014, 04:58 PM
 
784 posts, read 1,633,455 times
Reputation: 631
I say this again...some don't seem to catch on. In 3 countries of OVER 20 million combined population less than .007% of the population has become victim to Ebola in over 6 months. less than thousands have been infected.

This is in a 3rd world country without nearly any oversight to prevent spreading, horrible sanitary conditions, and very questionable burial practices.

yet you are worried that here in the states we will all die. Get a grip people!!!!

The reason the WHO has NOT declared this an international public health emergency is because this is their job...they know the numbers, they have the scientists, the statisticians, the computer models, the theory, the overall understanding of pathogens and doomsday scenarios. We have more protocols in place for outbreaks than you can ever imagine.

I challenge some of you to simply stop living in such needless fear and allowing it to feed off this ignorant media frenzy.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:28 PM
 
1,988 posts, read 2,306,399 times
Reputation: 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiebuttercup View Post
People can be contagious with HIV and not know it. They can be contagious and show zero symptoms for decades and their partners would not know without being told.

Ebola is not contagious until symptoms start. After symptoms start, within 2-4 weeks you are either dead or not contagious anymore. Plus once your symptoms really start, with Ebola you aren't going to be walking around because you are too sick; your main interaction is going to be with your caregivers, either family members or medical staff. That provides some inherent limits in the amount of people you can infect.

Apparently ebola stays in the semen up to 7 or 8 weeks (I could be off on the time here). So you can spread it after recovery.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
4,131 posts, read 6,069,976 times
Reputation: 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigmadsm View Post
I say this again...some don't seem to catch on. In 3 countries of OVER 20 million combined population less than .007% of the population has become victim to Ebola in over 6 months. less than thousands have been infected.

This is in a 3rd world country without nearly any oversight to prevent spreading, horrible sanitary conditions, and very questionable burial practices.

yet you are worried that here in the states we will all die. Get a grip people!!!!

The reason the WHO has NOT declared this an international public health emergency is because this is their job...they know the numbers, they have the scientists, the statisticians, the computer models, the theory, the overall understanding of pathogens and doomsday scenarios. We have more protocols in place for outbreaks than you can ever imagine.

I challenge some of you to simply stop living in such needless fear and allowing it to feed off this ignorant media frenzy.
I don't think anybody is worried that "we'll all die". That's a straw man. What we're worried about is that it becomes an epidemic here too


BTW something to think about is one reason the epidemic isn't worse is that the death rate is so high. If the treatments allow more people to survive, as good as that is, it can also mean the virus spreads much more effectively. Look at AIDS. Treatment is very effective for HIV now, and as a result the AIDS epidemic is actually getting worse among gay men.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:35 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,298,953 times
Reputation: 3737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
After Swine Flu, Legionnaires, HIV, Avian Flu.....etc.....you think people would have learned by now but apparently not. Fear sells, the media knows that and they play off of it.
Excellent point. Here in Southern California, should it actually rain enough to fill the street-gutters with runoff, our local television news teams loudly proclaim their coverage as "STORM TRACK 2014!!!"

In fact, I'll go you one better. Not only does fear sell, but anger does as well. (Why else, do you suppose, are certain "news" networks so popular? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juram View Post
Just yesterday a man in Colorado died of Hanta, a very dangerous disease in itself, one that kills about 40-45% of its victims and one that unlike Ebola, is endemic to the U.S. It's already here, its been here for awhile, yet nobody is freaking out.
Another excellent point. In the United States, at least for the time being, the Hantavirus is mostly limited to the West, the Upper Midwest and the Southeast. By the way, it is commonly transmitted by inhaling infected droplets and dust particles. The symptoms of one of its forms - Hantavirus Hemorrhagic Fever - are similar to those of Ebola.

Another proven mass killer is also present, and still occasionally active, in the United States. Transmitted by contaminated water, its epidemics killed hundreds of thousands of people all over Europe and North America; possibly millions worldwide. Its called Cholera.

Last edited by Nighteyes; 08-06-2014 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:41 PM
 
1,988 posts, read 2,306,399 times
Reputation: 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiebuttercup View Post
People can be contagious with HIV and not know it. They can be contagious and show zero symptoms for decades and their partners would not know without being told.

Ebola is not contagious until symptoms start. After symptoms start, within 2-4 weeks you are either dead or not contagious anymore. Plus once your symptoms really start, with Ebola you aren't going to be walking around because you are too sick; your main interaction is going to be with your caregivers, either family members or medical staff. That provides some inherent limits in the amount of people you can infect.

Thanks in part to the HIV epidemic, in this country, we are pretty good at tracking those at risk of infectious diseasse. Much of the money/assistance that is being promised to Africa now is in this realm; we're sending people there to help them identify Ebola patients and track down who they've come into contact with so we can monitor those people.

This is also what is being done in Nigeria now, after they learned that Sawyer had Ebola. It is very unfortunate that some of his medical staff has contracted the disease, but I think it is unlikely that any of them passed it on, because they've been monitored. We'll know more in a few weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighteyes View Post
Excellent point. Here in Southern California, should it actually rain enough to fill the street-gutters with runoff, our local television news teams loudly proclaim their coverage as "STORM TRACK 2014!!!"

In fact, I'll go you one better. Not only does fear sell, but anger does as well. (Why else, do you suppose, are certain "news" networks so popular? )



Another excellent point. In the United States, at least for the time being, the Hantavirus is primarily limited to the West and Upper Midwest. By the way, it is usually transmitted by inhaling infected dust particles.

Another proven mass killer is also present, and still occasionally active, in the United States. Transmitted by contaminated water, its epidemics killed hundreds of thousands of people all over Europe and North America. Its called Cholera.

There is a treatment for cholera so I wouldn't consider that an equal of ebola; hanta virus, however, does not have a cure.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:47 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,305,973 times
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They finally released the results for the NY guy, he doesn't have it thankfully.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:56 PM
 
Location: FROM Dixie, but IN SoCal
3,491 posts, read 5,298,953 times
Reputation: 3737
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebbe View Post
There is a treatment for cholera so I wouldn't consider that an equal of ebola...
Never said it was. But I betcha any number of people are scrambling to look it up. Fear sells...

Now. Because it seems that brevity and succinctness are actually no-nos on this Board, here are my additional words. I'm taken aback by the strength and virulence of the fear of Ebola, and the anger at the Establishment, that have been expressed in this thread.

Last edited by Nighteyes; 08-06-2014 at 06:26 PM..
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:07 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,305 posts, read 11,818,327 times
Reputation: 8038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Maine Land Man View Post
"It wouldn't go far in a country that is hypervigilant with tremendous financial and medical resources, with excellent public hygiene."

Wishful thinking. In 1918 people were responsible and would comply with quarantines. Even the bums were polite in 1918. Today common sense and common courtesy are no longer common. We do not have enough "authorities" in our nation to enforce a quarantine. If a town or county wants to enforce a quarantine they are going to need a civil guard or militia in place 24 hours a day. Those folks will need the discipline to tell a father he can not go home to his family. When that man turns around he will likely park his pickup down the road, take his scoped rifle and go over the ridge to his family. Woe be to the "authority" who tries to stop him on his home ground. If a pair of civilians is seen guarding that father's route home, just as soon as the first "authority's" head disappears as a cloud of red mist the second "authority" will lose all enthusiasm for his assignment and depart his post forthwith.
But Ebola isn't even in the same ballpark concerning contagiousness, it's so much less. Most flus are very contagious but not especially deadly ..... Ebola is exactly the reverse, deadly but it doesn't spread that easily where public hygiene is good.

The 1918 Spanish Influenza was BOTH very contagious and very deadly. It was a mutation of ordinary flu, which is why I said we have more to fear from mutated flus than Ebola.

However it is a bit worrisome to me that this particular outbreak appears at first glance to be a bit more contagious than earlier versions, judging by the numbers and speed of spreading.
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
It's not as clear as the CDC would have you believe that transmission is only by direct contact with large amounts of bodily fluid
Assessment of the Risk of Ebola Virus Transmission from Bodily Fluids and Fomites
Did you read the article? It actually confirms what Juram has already told us:

They found virus in saliva, breast milk, stool, semen, and tears.

Only one saliva specimen contained culturable virus. Eight were positive for genetic material only, suggesting that saliva inactivates the virus and prevents it from being able to replicate.

The virus appears to persist in breast milk and semen well after convalescence. Survivors need to abstain from breast feeding (at least some weeks) and sexual activity (3 months) after they recover.

They did not find virus in urine and only one skin sample was positive. No sample of vomit, sweat, or sputum was positive. A single body louse was negative.

"Other than in samples grossly contaminated with blood, EBOV was not found by any method on environmental surfaces and by RT-PCR on the skin of only 1 patient. These results suggest that environmental contamination and fomites are not frequent modes of transmission, at least in an isolation ward."

This was a small study and there was logistical difficulty in handling the samples, which had to be transferred to the CDC. Yes, they sent ebola to the US! In the year 2000!

Juram has already posted a much larger study showing us that contacts who get sick have actually had physical contact with an ebola victim. Just living in the same household does not appear to be a risk factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
BTW something to think about is one reason the epidemic isn't worse is that the death rate is so high. If the treatments allow more people to survive, as good as that is, it can also mean the virus spreads much more effectively. Look at AIDS. Treatment is very effective for HIV now, and as a result the AIDS epidemic is actually getting worse among gay men.
Yes, the high death rate limits the spread.

New HIV infections are up a bit in men who have sex with men, but they are down in IV drug users and heterosexuals. That means we need to ramp up education in the gay community. It does not mean that effective treatment of HIV has allowed the virus to change in some way in order to spread more easily. Otherwise, the incidence would be up in all populations. How HIV spreads is much more dependent on the behavior of people who carry it than on characteristics of the virus itself.
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