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Old 08-12-2014, 03:14 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,489 posts, read 1,427,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
Anyone think it's strange there is a "top-secret" serum available ONLY to the two doctors who came back here? And that they're (guess what) already showing improvement?

The serum isn't top secret, it's been in development since @ least 2011. Google ZMapp, & there are a couple of others that are also in development. ZMapp was made available for a handful of patients, but under a protocol for humanitarian assistance, I believe it's called. Human trials haven't been done with ZMapp, & apparently it takes months to produce the stuff. The humanitarian assistance category allows its use on humans, with probably a no-fault clause if its use causes any problems for the patients.

The US patients were 1 doctor & 1 nurse. & in the US doctor's case, he'd previously had a serum or blood transfusion from a 14-year-old who contracted Ebola & survived (there in Africa). That's a possible treatment, & it may help (also true of the ZMapp - it's simply not known how - if any - effective the ZMapp is/will be) - but it's controversial on ethical grounds.

ZMapp was apparently also made available to the Spanish doctor, who was evacuated to Spain with Ebola symptoms.

No, the facts & outcomes to date for the US patients aren't strange; they're perfectly normal. But with Ebola, there are no guarantees whatsoever.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:16 PM
 
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Both HIV and Ebola originated in Africa because tribes there hunt, butcher and eat the animals that carry the disease; chimpanzees, monkeys, fruit bats, etc
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:21 PM
 
13,483 posts, read 9,621,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
The serum isn't top secret, it's been in development since @ least 2011. Google ZMapp, & there are a couple of others that are also in development. ZMapp was made available for a handful of patients, but under a protocol for humanitarian assistance, I believe it's called. Human trials haven't been done with ZMapp, & apparently it takes months to produce the stuff. The humanitarian assistance category allows its use on humans, with probably a no-fault clause if its use causes any problems for the patients.

The US patients were 1 doctor & 1 nurse. & in the US doctor's case, he'd previously had a serum or blood transfusion from a 14-year-old who contracted Ebola & survived (there in Africa). That's a possible treatment, & it may help (also true of the ZMapp - it's simply not known how - if any - effective the ZMapp is/will be) - but it's controversial on ethical grounds.

ZMapp was apparently also made available to the Spanish doctor, who was evacuated to Spain with Ebola symptoms.

No, the facts & outcomes to date for the US patients aren't strange; they're perfectly normal. But with Ebola, there are no guarantees whatsoever.
The Spanish priest died. He was 75 years old though, so maybe ZMapp wasn't enough.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,489 posts, read 1,427,174 times
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Default ZMapp is the serum in use, limited quantities

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backintheville2 View Post
Bingo! I had been thinking the same thing. Also, if this "top-secret" serum does work, why is it not being made in huge doses to give to those afflicted with Ebola in Africa? Also, if the Doctor was wearing the hazmat suit, HOW did he get it, if it is only spread through body fluids? I'm waiting for the answer on that.

I think there is a lot we're not being told about this. But I do hope I'm wrong about that.


The ZMapp serum isn't top-secret, fedgov, military & AMRIID have been funding development. But because ZMapp is still in primate trials, they're not yet looking @ mass production - first they have to come up with an effective anti-Ebola agent. The serum is actually 3 components, & getting them together is done biologically, with the growth medium being tobacco plants. A triumph of bioengineering, but it's a tricky field & takes time to plow through all the possibilities.

Fedgov, military & AMRIID are throwing money @ the problem now, to try to speed production. Human trials for ZMapp are slated for 2015, but if needs must, I'm sure we'll simply mass produce the stuff as best we can & provide it to the front-line medical practitioners working in the field, & the research people most @ risk with hands-on work in the lab.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default He was an inspiration

Quote:
Originally Posted by NLVgal View Post
The Spanish priest died. He was 75 years old though, so maybe ZMapp wasn't enough.


Yes, I saw that. Brave man - ¡Dios lo bendiga!
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:43 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
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Default Iron fist in a velvet glove

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
How arrogant. IF Ebola were to arrive in the US, it would kill at least as many people, perhaps more, than it is currently killing in Africa. Why? Because we are all still only people. White Americans have a longer history with tech than Africa and they still dole out the medical and tech resources to Africa with a miserly stinginess that borders on depraved indifference, but... when push comes to shove. You all aren't any smarter or better. You panic, you have superstitions and ignorance, and IF something like Ebola gets a toe-hold in the US it could do a lot of damage before being reigned in. I would advise any African Americans reading this to avoid travel for the foreseeable future. If you even sweat in public on a hot day you are dead meat if you are in or near an airport. That's how the US does national security. Plainclothes goons with shoot first, ask questions later orders. Low tech still works better in the profiteering 21st Century.

H


Nah, nah, that's all wrong. The last thing you want to do is shoot someone with Ebola - high-velocity penetrating slugs (it's never just one) would throw up a mist of blood, plus bleeding, plus contaminate the surroundings - the absolute no-no in dealing with Ebola. You'd want something quick & discreet - a Tazer, for instance. & even then, you have to get close enough to fire the electrodes, if you're in stand-off mode.

That also rules out hand-to-hand - you don't want to break the skin, cause any bloodshed, spitting out of teeth, saliva, sweat, etc. & you'll want a biohazard cot to wheel the accused away in - better lay in a supply - you're probably right - Homeland Security front-line responders are v. likely twitchy as it is - hit them with the possibility of Ebola - a v. nasty death - & I'm sure they'll go haywire @ the least provocation.

Even though going haywire pretty much guarantees a massive FUBAR in actuality, it's still what tends to happen.
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:23 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,489 posts, read 1,427,174 times
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Default Data, data

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
If third-world nations like most of Africa and India weren't reproducing like rabbits in filth, destitution, and not having the basic needs met for the population they already have, the world would be in a much better place.
Zero contribution to the world, a drain on the global economy, overpopulation, disease, AIDS, and now ebola. Thank you Africa.

Course, if the standard model is correct & mankind did evolve in Africa, then I'd say that Africa is still owed some credit. Yes, to some extent, Modernity is to blame for the spread of HIV/AIDS, Ebola, Marburg, & some other diseases. Those diseases are opportunistic - they stayed put in Congo (central Africa), circulating in their host animals or insects or whatever, until population pressure or the hunt for resources (ores, diamonds, cropland, water, etc.) drove people to encroach upon reservoirs of disease. The AIDS Highway facilitated the movement of people, goods & disease. The apparently endemic problem of prostitution & high levels of sexual contact in sub-Saharan Africa - made/makes disease control v. difficult, especially STDs.

Once there, HIV is a slow endemic, Ebola Zaire is a fast one. We could avoid the problem by limiting our geographical growth to stay out of old-growth tropical rain forests - which pound for pound, have the most biological (& so also disease) diversity in the World. That won't happen, of course.

The Reston Ebola (VA, near WADC) virus infestation was caused partly by the relatively easy money to be made from importing monkeys for medical research. They were all kept together, overcrowded, in the same building - poor sickness/contamination protocol. Presumably also to save money, their canines weren't filed down/extracted. Monkeys are v. strong, & they attack the face/eyes when they fight.

As long as there's a market for live monkeys, or even just monkey organs in the US, we'll keep importing monkeys, & we'll continue to be vulnerable to biological agents among the imports.
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Old 08-12-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Near a river
16,045 posts, read 18,283,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwest88 View Post
The serum isn't top secret, it's been in development since @ least 2011. Google ZMapp, & there are a couple of others that are also in development. ZMapp was made available for a handful of patients, but under a protocol for humanitarian assistance, I believe it's called. Human trials haven't been done with ZMapp, & apparently it takes months to produce the stuff. The humanitarian assistance category allows its use on humans, with probably a no-fault clause if its use causes any problems for the patients.

The US patients were 1 doctor & 1 nurse. & in the US doctor's case, he'd previously had a serum or blood transfusion from a 14-year-old who contracted Ebola & survived (there in Africa). That's a possible treatment, & it may help (also true of the ZMapp - it's simply not known how - if any - effective the ZMapp is/will be) - but it's controversial on ethical grounds.

ZMapp was apparently also made available to the Spanish doctor, who was evacuated to Spain with Ebola symptoms.

No, the facts & outcomes to date for the US patients aren't strange; they're perfectly normal. But with Ebola, there are no guarantees whatsoever.
With something as ghastly as Ebola, there is a medical ethic to use whatever is available approved or not. And it's hard to believe pharmaceutical companies would take "months" to produce anything, given the proper incentive. As for "top-secret," that is the description used by the major mainstream media in many of its headlines (not my wording).
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Old 08-12-2014, 10:17 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,489 posts, read 1,427,174 times
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Default Doctor, doctor, Mr. M.D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newenglandgirl View Post
With something as ghastly as Ebola, there is a medical ethic to use whatever is available approved or not. And it's hard to believe pharmaceutical companies would take "months" to produce anything, given the proper incentive. As for "top-secret," that is the description used by the major mainstream media in many of its headlines (not my wording).

The medical ethic is humanitarian grounds, & apparently there's some kind of permission that has to be given by the competent authority - which was given.

It's not big pharma that's producing ZMapp - it's a small start-up, & they've been working on this one for some years. Big pharma is only interested in money-makers, & an Ebola treatment - while valuable to sub-Sahara Africa - they can't pay the freight. (See the licensing that was done for sub-Saharan Africa for HIV/AIDS cocktails - same kind of deal, & big pharma is not going down that road again.)

Small pharma outfits can run on a shoestring & sweat out the trials - but bear in mind that human trials aren't set to start until 2015 - & that's if nothing goes wrong with the current use of the serum. Apparently there have been 3 human trials - the 2 US cases, 1 Spanish priest. The priest died - he was 75 - maybe too far gone? Too old? The US doctor had a serum/blood transfusion from a 14-year-old Ebola survivor - & so had muddied the trail. If he gets better, Was it the serum? The transfusion? Both? The US nurse is the only one relying totally on ZMapp, TMK. We'll just have to wait & see - although both patients are apparently doing much better than expected.

Money doesn't rush science. You can expedite the material - get bigger better everything. But on some work, you simply have to wait. The bottleneck, I believe, is that ZMapp is composed of three discrete monobodies - see ZMapp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for the details. The growth medium is tobacco plants, & that's what takes time. & they're way ahead of schedule - they don't know yet that the serum works as expected, or works @ all.

I don't think the work was top-secret, my impression of the domestic mass media is that they're simply lazy, & assume that if it's not Madonna, Beiber, M. Cyrus - no one will care. & since the mass media in the age of the mega-Zaibatsu is about eye-candy & attracting eyeballs - & hence money, I'm sure they figure hard science is a goner. Which pretty much describes print media, anyway. But that's a different kind of virus, to be sure.
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Old 08-12-2014, 11:53 PM
 
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I was watching on the news the patient with Ebola being taken out of the ambulance on the walkway that leads to the door of the hospital.

I was thinking, that doesn't seem to be very contained. The health care workers were wrapped in plastic, but the patient did not look like they were wrapped in plastic containment. I hope that the germs did not go airborn and now they are in the air ready to invade the next person to inhale the air.

I am not kidding about this. It did not look very contained to me. I am concerned that they are putting this ebola patient ahead of the public's health safety and welfare. That is you and me.
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