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Old 08-14-2014, 07:50 AM
 
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"Would they truly act for the greater good? Let's hope it never comes to that choice - the notion of Mandarins still rings in Western history, if not exactly enshrined in Party orthodoxy. Or @ least, not for public consumption."...

Yes, but the greater good is just a more modern way of keeping the "mandate of heaven". It's consistent with Chinese history, your idea of party preserving itself, and the common western idea of institutional preservation. The CCP wants to stay alive just like any western organization, be it political or economic, wants to stay alive. This is also true with any western government. So what's your point? Watch any movie made by Hollywood and one of the most common villain is the big and out of control government....
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:20 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,515 posts, read 1,461,147 times
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Default Beginnings are such delicate times

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
"Would they truly act for the greater good? Let's hope it never comes to that choice - the notion of Mandarins still rings in Western history, if not exactly enshrined in Party orthodoxy. Or @ least, not for public consumption."...

Yes, but the greater good is just a more modern way of keeping the "mandate of heaven". It's consistent with Chinese history, your idea of party preserving itself, and the common western idea of institutional preservation. The CCP wants to stay alive just like any western organization, be it political or economic, wants to stay alive. This is also true with any western government. So what's your point? Watch any movie made by Hollywood and one of the most common villain is the big and out of control government....


No, I don't think so. The whole notion of altruism, of disinterested journalism, of knowledge for knowledge's sake - seems v. foreign to most of the World, including the PRC. Granted that too often our national security organs have salted agents - or @ least debriefed civilians who might have info of value - into relief, scientific, cultural, etc. parties.

The problem I see with PRC is that the Party necessarily centralizes decision-making power, & to do that, they have to centralize all info flows to themselves. This means that @ the crucial point, the Party will be able to choose to sacrifice itself & save the nation, or save itself. The temptation - & their training & culture & ethos - will argue that they should save themselves first, as the organizing cadre is what's truly important in the long run. The mass of the nation can always be reconstituted later, as time allows.

In the US, we've already seen this choice play out. AMRIID (see The Hot Zone, a real life case study) detected what they thought was an outbreak of Ebola in Reston, VA - 14 miles from WADC. Before knowing the exact nature of the threat, AMRIID pulled together expertise, staffing, equipment & went to the site, biologically isolated the building, killed all the infected animals, took samples, & decontaminated the site. Two of the staff @ the animal site were down, one with a heart attack, one with some respiratory infection. @ the sticking point, no one knew if they were down with preliminary symptoms of Ebola or not. AMRIID made the right decision - possibly sacrifice the team, but save or mitigate an Ebola outbreak in WADC.

Given the same choice, I'm not sure that the notion of sacrifice exists in the minds of the PRC. That's what I'm saying - the ethos is v. different, however justified it may be by events on the ground in the past. & the dominant ethos will guide the decision-making, no matter what ideological framework is hung on the skeleton.
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,606 posts, read 9,506,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Please - stop the insistence that this is the next pandemic, because it ain't.
Where have I insisted that? It is not even the next pandemic in Africa. But it is killing people and if it got here it would kill people. No more and quite a bit less but significant and all the more so for its difficult to cure nature. An infected person would fall and innocents would rush to aid him or her. It is a human response. Can't be prevented. The first responders would then turn that person over to a hospital where health workers could then be also infected. Granted the U.S. is not Africa and has a lot of cultural and technological advantages but some people would die. Do I need to drag in AIDS? How well have we done there? It took a decade to even identify it. There have been well over a half million deaths and they continue. It will take only hours to identify the first Ebola case but in those hours there will be spin off mortalities. That is all I am saying.

H
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Old 08-14-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
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Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
The reality is that currently Ebola Virus has a high probability of killing and a low transmissibility when precautions are used. Unlike H1N5 which was highly transmissible but not lethal Ebola is the reverse; lethal yet not easily transmissible. That said, there are some initial senses of the infectious disease community that in the setting of spraying off contaminated personal protective equipment Ebola virus may have become aerosolized. This means that wet moist droplets were either inhaled, swallowed or entered a body by some other means, and those persons may have become infected. It is clear that touching people who have Ebola is often fatal without the use of PPE.

Virus are smart little cells contained in protein. They mutate and develop the ability to spread. Why? Because like all LIFE the virus wants to reproduce and grow. It is the purpose of life....to grow and flourish. Good or bad, angelic or evil that is the way the code of life is written. To grow.

So then, it makes sense that some virus mutate H1N1 and some do not. Some mutate into more pathogenic (lethal) forms and others do not. The worst combination is high transmissibility and high lethality (1918 flu). Bear in mind that this is not a boilerplate idea, in other words the mutations or growth are unpredictable and therefore monitored very closely by very smart people in W.H.O. and CDC. The virus however is equally smart, so collectively pronouncements of how safe we are (currently quite safe without contact) are only as good as the mutations allow.

At this point in time, each person who is concerned should think over what would be needed to avoid contact with any person who is infected with any virus (yes the common cold) and learn how to use PPE to your advantage.

If the Ebola virus mutates then society may change. Thus far it has not, Testing occurs each day in several countries with very smart people closely watching. Thinking that we can be in control is only as real as our thinking is clear.

Stay well, Be prepared.
It would appear the process of mutation is already underway. As i understand it, this is Ebola Zaire that is being dealt with. EZ is supposed to be much more lethal (~90% mortality). And far less transmissible. The current version of EZ is only 50% lethal which is great for those infected but it is displaying a shocking level of transmissibility. The virus is "learning" to stop being so damn lethal and killing all its hosts before they can infect others! It is also improving its ability to cross from infected to uninfected humans. I mean... the projectile vomiting and bleeding out of infected people made them in effect active dispersal agents. You were sprayed with it so to speak. That does not appear to be necessary now, not if you can catch it simply from mopping up vomitus without full bio-hazard equipment. AIDS requires intimate physical contact to transmit. Ebola can be transmitted simply by touching sweat. No civilization is up to the requirements of providing full PPE to all the people that could possibly be infected by Ebola once it makes a beachhead into a region. The US included. Keeping infected persons out of the US is really the only way to prevent the virus from becoming established here. I am certain this is being discussed at the Federal level. I am really serious when I say that black people with even the slightest degree of observable illness should stay away from airports.

H
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:33 PM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,333,538 times
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Infected items looted in quarantine centre raid, Ebola patients flee - World News | TVNZ

Urrrggggg good god these people are worse than the freaking monkeys they caught the disease from.
This just makes me so mad I can't stand it. WHY is the world still tolerating all this and placing people at risk to help these ignorant animals who don't want to be helped?! Lock them in there and let them die, like they clearly want!
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:55 PM
 
1,167 posts, read 1,050,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Infected items looted in quarantine centre raid, Ebola patients flee - World News | TVNZ

Urrrggggg good god these people are worse than the freaking monkeys they caught the disease from.
This just makes me so mad I can't stand it. WHY is the world still tolerating all this and placing people at risk to help these ignorant animals who don't want to be helped?! Lock them in there and let them die, like they clearly want!

They are people, not animals. Regardless of what they are doing and the right or wrong of it, respect that they are human beings, just like you.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:12 AM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,333,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post
They are people, not animals. Regardless of what they are doing and the right or wrong of it, respect that they are human beings, just like you.
What have they done to deserve respect?? Respect needs to be earned. When one person is risking their life to help another and that person spits in their face in return, they don't deserve respect, they should be left to rot. And that's exactly what they're doing.
And people differ from animals in that they have higher intelligence - which these creatures clearly don't. It's not an isolated case either as this kind of crap has been going on this entire time - aid workers are literally placing their lives on the line and dying putting up these facilities (which the rest of the world is paying for, btw), only to have them taken down, attacked, raided, etc. within days. Stupid stupid stupid. About time they take all international workers out and shut everyone else down there, they should only be happy that the evil white people aren't bothering them anymore
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:22 AM
 
13,490 posts, read 9,740,029 times
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[quote=EvilCookie;36126163]Infected items looted in quarantine centre raid, Ebola patients flee - World News | TVNZ

Uh Oh. This happened in a slum area, which is a perfect breeding ground for Ebola.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
9,606 posts, read 9,506,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Infected items looted in quarantine centre raid, Ebola patients flee - World News | TVNZ

Urrrggggg good god these people are worse than the freaking monkeys they caught the disease from.
This just makes me so mad I can't stand it. WHY is the world still tolerating all this and placing people at risk to help these ignorant animals who don't want to be helped?! Lock them in there and let them die, like they clearly want!
Please post the link to the post where you expressed this kind of outrage over the animals that shot down a civilian airliner over Ukranian airspace. The least sophisticated of those soldiers had more educational, financial and social whereiwthal than an entire extended family from Monrovia.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:44 PM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,515 posts, read 1,461,147 times
Reputation: 3124
Default The quality of mercy is not strained

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Infected items looted in quarantine centre raid, Ebola patients flee - World News | TVNZ

Urrrggggg good god these people are worse than the freaking monkeys they caught the disease from.
This just makes me so mad I can't stand it. WHY is the world still tolerating all this and placing people at risk to help these ignorant animals who don't want to be helped?! Lock them in there and let them die, like they clearly want!


You needn't worry overmuch. Ebola has a very steep learning curve - the people who have inadvertently exposed themselves to Ebola will either adapt (change their behavior) or die, and quickly at that. Liberia (and Sierra Leone and Guinea) have been slowly deteriorating for decades or more.

They've had no previous experience with Ebola, and so they are going to have a very bad time learning to cope with the disease. In fact, the central governments and public health systems may not survive the encounter. The bulk of the effort to contain Ebola is already being done by foreign NGOs. WHO and so on are calling for more effort by the West in terms of facing and containing the disease in Africa, instead of waiting for the disease to spread beyond Africa.
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