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Old 07-02-2014, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,867 posts, read 28,145,186 times
Reputation: 25978

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Oh, really? Ever hear of Snip, Snip? Some real MEN do that voluntarily so their women won't NEED BC.
Let me clarify: women take "birth control" for way more reasons than preventing pregnancies. I personally take birth control pills because without them my periods are irregular and very heavy and lead to anemia for me. So I need the pill, whether I am sexually active or not, for health and well-being.

Other women take the pill due to framing, painful periods, nausea and migraines.

Still others use it to help with acne.

 
Old 07-02-2014, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,867 posts, read 28,145,186 times
Reputation: 25978
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJA View Post
Totally sure. the next thing the government will be trying to tell businesses exactly how much they have to pay each employee and what products it is they should sell. (which they already have in some cases..see Mcdonalds.)
Corporations do not have the rights of individuals. And are not religious entities. We are headed into a slippery slope here, as the goal of the corporation is to eliminate personal liability.

Do we want to roll that back too?
 
Old 07-02-2014, 11:08 PM
PJA
 
2,387 posts, read 2,376,866 times
Reputation: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Corporations do not have the rights of individuals. And are not religious entities. We are headed into a slippery slope here, as the goal of the corporation is to eliminate personal liability.

Do we want to roll that back too?
But they are ran by people and just because someone works for or owns a company doesn't mean they should have to give up their rights.
 
Old 07-02-2014, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,867 posts, read 28,145,186 times
Reputation: 25978
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJA View Post
But they are ran by people and just because someone works for or owns a company doesn't mean they should have to give up their rights.
Corporations shouldn't have "rights."
 
Old 07-02-2014, 11:59 PM
 
Location: galaxy far far away
3,111 posts, read 4,397,042 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It was an extremely SAD DAY for Americans and especially for women. Hobby Lobby is a business and regardless of the SCOTUS businesses are not people. HL has huge investments in businesses which make contraceptives including those which can terminate a pregnancy and you won't see them divesting those investments any time soon. HL owners are hypocrites beyond words. I hope they fail and soon.
HL only objected to 4 out of the 20 contraceptives. They don't forbid their female employees from making their own personal choices. And for decades, NO CONTRACEPTIVES AT ALL were covered by ANY corporation - even the Liberal leaning ones. So - No. Not a sad day. Corporations are not required by law to provide ANY insurance or any coverage, let alone get involved in women's reproductive choices. Misleading headlines are really showing how biased the media is. It was Bill Clinton's presidency that declared a privately held/family owned corporation is indeed "an individual" so you can blame him... and not all of that is good for the corporations. So you are saying your favorite guy, Mr. Hillary, was wrong about that? Because he and Hillary benefited greatly from that ruling. Or are these laws only good for the One percenters who vote Democrat and not for the rest of us? Can't have it both ways.

As for the investments, so many of the reports are erroneous and maddening. People love to read screaming headlines but don't look at the facts. This organization also (without government mandate) provides 401K's to their 20,000 employees. They match the investments their employees make into the 401K's. The 401K invests in a variety of Mutual Funds - that is, a variety of funds from numerous corporations. Those investments change constantly based upon the Fund Managers decisions as the market moves up and down.

Furthermore - I would put money on it if you have a 401K, you don't have any idea what it invests in... in fact, for all you know, your 401K may be invested in companies you despise! I'd also put money on it that HL has put the kebosh on the funds you mention since all of the people on the Left have so helpfully assisted them in discovering this thing they probably don't want.

The real hypocrites are people who scream and scream about "big corporations" who - gasp - make a profit (ie, earn a living) and in the next breath scream and scream about "massive unemployment" but don't understand that it's the corporations who employ people, and the only way "the government" can employ people is if Corporations make money and pay taxes. It all goes hand in hand.
 
Old 07-03-2014, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,867 posts, read 28,145,186 times
Reputation: 25978
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Cowgirl View Post

As for the investments, so many of the reports are erroneous and maddening. People love to read screaming headlines but don't look at the facts. This organization also (without government mandate) provides 401K's to their 20,000 employees. They match the investments their employees make into the 401K's. The 401K invests in a variety of Mutual Funds - that is, a variety of funds from numerous corporations. Those investments change constantly based upon the Fund Managers decisions as the market moves up and down.
It looks like you are making excuses. It is very easy to abstain from supporting the corporations that make these contraceptives. There are specially created funds that explicitly avoid these types of companies on purpose. If it is so important, they would have made those choices. And likely wouldn't use chinese labor, as china essentially mandated abortion with its one child law. That is what I would call hypocrisy.

Quote:
Furthermore - I would put money on it if you have a 401K, you don't have any idea what it invests in... in fact, for all you know, your 401K may be invested in companies you despise! I'd also put money on it that HL has put the kebosh on the funds you mention since all of the people on the Left have so helpfully assisted them in discovering this thing they probably don't want.
You have choice where your 401k money goes.

Quote:
The real hypocrites are people who scream and scream about "big corporations" who - gasp - make a profit (ie, earn a living) and in the next breath scream and scream about "massive unemployment" but don't understand that it's the corporations who employ people, and the only way "the government" can employ people is if Corporations make money and pay taxes. It all goes hand in hand.
Maybe you are ill-informed. Most americans do not work for big corporations. They work for small companies (under 500 employees). Small companies employ 50% of the workforce, and have creates 2/3 of the jobs over the past decade.
Quote:
In support of that title, many have cited studies from the U.S. Small Business Administration that show small firms employ just over half of the private-sector workforce and created nearly two-thirds of nation’s net new jobs over the past decade and a half.

However, the definition of “small business” provides important context for those statistics. The SBA considers firms with fewer than 500 employees small, placing nearly every business in the country (99.7 percent of firms that have employees) under that umbrella term — thus, it is no surprise they employ the most workers.
Who actually creates jobs: Start-ups, small businesses or big corporations? - The Washington Post

And while 500 employees isn't that small, it is nowhere near large corporation sized either. In a typical industry, a company with 500 employees would have about $50M in revenue. Hobby Lobby dwarfs that size 6x.
 
Old 07-03-2014, 12:53 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,421 posts, read 16,681,935 times
Reputation: 16420
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It was an extremely SAD DAY for Americans and especially for women. Hobby Lobby is a business and regardless of the SCOTUS businesses are not people. HL has huge investments in businesses which make contraceptives including those which can terminate a pregnancy and you won't see them divesting those investments any time soon. HL owners are hypocrites beyond words. I hope they fail and soon.
I love their store and its really fun to walk through it and look at all the stuff, but not only will I never buy anything from them, I won't set foot either. They are a *business* and as a business they can't traumple the rights of their underpaid employees. This opens a rabbit hole that should instead be cemented shut.
 
Old 07-03-2014, 02:06 AM
 
9,863 posts, read 8,981,318 times
Reputation: 7945
I haven't read through all the comments but people seem to ignore the FDA approved 20 methods of contraceptives for the Affordable Care Act. The decision by the US Supreme Court made this small decision, which is not much of a ruling anyway. Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties received exception to only 4 of the 20 contraceptives. That leaves 16 contraceptives the companies insurance will pay for.

The companies did not want to pay for the day after pill specifically those that prevent uterine implantation of a fertilized egg, such as hormonal contraceptives and intrauterine devices. They will pay for other methods listed in the ACA which are contraceptives not abortion pills.

Family Planning Clinics and our health department provides contraceptives for free. I am an old women's rights protestor from the bra burning days, I protested the Vietnam war even though my husband was fighting in Vietnam. I fought my way up in a male dominated profession, electrical power generation. I was a libber before some of the women so upset over this decision was born.

Take Action, Plan B One Step, Next Choice One-Dose, My Way and other generics is available in your local pharmacy in the family planning aisle without age restrictions and no Rx needed. I would hope this is not a medication a woman would need daily, weekly or monthly. I don't think one's employer, the US government nor local government is responsible for a female's sex life. It's time she takes responsibility for safe sex by means of birth control and making sure her partner wears a condom. In doing this insurance companies will pay for birth control.

You have to pick your battles and this small decision by the Supreme Court is nothing. Hobby Lobby employees still have a selection of 16 methods of birth control that is mandatory under the Affordable Care Act.

For years the courts have relentlessly been driving God out of public life. This decision is a first for the Supreme Court in a very long time.
 
Old 07-03-2014, 05:05 AM
 
10,388 posts, read 7,472,821 times
Reputation: 18309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
tubal litagtions!!!!!!!
Scary stuff!

 
Old 07-03-2014, 05:07 AM
 
10,388 posts, read 7,472,821 times
Reputation: 18309
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Corporations shouldn't have "rights."
sort negates the term "free enterprise" doesn't it? *sigh*
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