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Old 07-09-2014, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,577,311 times
Reputation: 7717

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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being View Post
You don't pay my way either, friend. Now we are two. Let's try to get the others to be responsible and pay their way too and both of us might be able to keep some of the money we earn.
The idea that everyone is capable of paying their way is silly and pedantic. Or are you advocating social Darwinism?

 
Old 07-09-2014, 10:36 AM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,616,438 times
Reputation: 13605
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being View Post
I said no. Is that skirting? You also haven't posted those insurance companies requirements for paying for a member's Viagara and penile implants.
I'm sure there are very strict on the conditions for paying for these. My own insurance company states firmly that they will not pay for these under any circumstances and mine is a nationally known high-end insurance company. You should really read up and see just what circumstances are required for the companies you trot out here before making such blanket statements.
Since we're talking about Hobby Lobby, that's what I'm talking about.
 
Old 07-09-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,437 posts, read 41,696,241 times
Reputation: 47030
Why do supporters of Hobby Lobby think birth control is wrong? Because they don't think women should be enjoying sex and they might even (gasp) not even be financially dependent on men any more.

Now don't give me the bull that conservatives are not against birth control...just a few kinds of birth control. The truth is that religious conservatives don't think women should be enjoying sex and doing it for any other reason than to procreate or to satisfy their men. At least I bet most of them feel this way.

This is an interesting article with more information. I know it is from a progressive site but the facts are still the same.

New Study Helps Explain Why Hobby Lobby Supporters Are So Fiercely Opposed To Birth Control | ThinkProgress
 
Old 07-09-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,166 posts, read 6,352,561 times
Reputation: 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefragile View Post
I beg to differ. Wasn't it that man Coulter who rued the day that women got the vote? Anyway, my point in all of this is that conservatives appear to invite the invasion of religion into politics & law while espousing against it in other countries.
Only in what passes for your mind.
 
Old 07-09-2014, 11:29 AM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,616,438 times
Reputation: 13605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
Only in what passes for your mind.
All you need to do is read posts on this forum. The evidence is right there, hard not to notice it. But thank you for your brilliant response!
 
Old 07-09-2014, 12:01 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,166 posts, read 6,352,561 times
Reputation: 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Actually, the Supreme Court ruling on Tuesday (following the HL ruling) was that this applied to all 20 methods of birth control.

And once again, HL does not pay for their employees' health insurance.

HL employees work for and earn that health insurance. If they are like most employees, the also pay a portion of their premiums.

Health insurance is not a gift from employers, no more so than your paycheck or your sick days off.

Employees earn, (i.e. work for) their health insurance. Employers do not give it to them, like a Thanksgiving turkey, out of the goodness of their hearts.

What is so hard to grasp about this?
And what is so hard for you to grasp about SCOTUS ruling that HL owners were not required to violate their religious beliefs in paying in entirety birth control for their employees? That the ruling would have included HL's not paying for any available birth control methods had they chosen not to do so.

The fact is, that HL states it will pay for 16 of the 20 available birth control methods, just not the methods their owners believe violate their religious beliefs because they are abortifacients. IMO if you look at that list, it's pretty inclusive. And despite the claims of the "antiwoman" zealots, HL does not forbid their employees from using these abortifacients, or even having abortions, but they don't want to be forced to pay for them. Here's a thought- why don't you find a HL female employee and ask her what her take is on HL's coverage of birth control?

Amazing how that liberal entitlement mentality clouds one's views of the reality of business ownership and employment. Or perhaps it's unfamiliarity with employment, who knows?
Many of those Hobby Lobbys are located in right to work states, and unless the employees are working under a union contract (not likely in one of those states) which provide all those benefits, employers are not required ( at least until the Obamacare mandate kicks in for employers) to provide healthcare, vacation or sick days, or any other benefits. They do so voluntarily. The NLRB says nothing about required vacation or sick time, health insurance, pension plans or 401K's....only that an employee be paid for services and for any overtime if he's a non-exempt employee.

And as for employer-provided health insurance, employers most certainly do pay for the policies they provide to their employees. The employers select and contract with the insurance companies, select the insurance plans- including benefits available to the employees based on the prices of those plans, and make the plans available to their employees. The insurance company charges a premium for each covered employee (again depending on the level and number of benefits in each plan), and the employee generally pays only a small portion of that premium, with the employer picking up the lion's share of the premium. I could cite many examples where I know this to be true, from experience. I know the employer I retired from paid approximately $1200/month for each employee, and the employee paid approximately $120/month for a single, and family coverage was about $300/month.
 
Old 07-09-2014, 12:38 PM
 
8,322 posts, read 8,599,004 times
Reputation: 25988
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being View Post
What I want is for these folks to take responsibility for themselves and pay their own way. Simple enough? I don't want control over any woman's body. I want her to be responsible for her own actions just as I am responsible for mine.
What I want is to keep health care costs to a minimum because all of us benefit the most that way. Payment for birth control will lower overall health care costs. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to absorb that fact. And, to use your own words, that should be "simple enough".

I really could care less about speeches about "individual responsibility". I've read all the bad Ayn Rand novels I care too.
 
Old 07-09-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: plano
5,960 posts, read 7,508,909 times
Reputation: 5017
Most nationalized healthcare systems minimize costs as is your goal. One way they do it is not prescribe expensive new drugs and the VA minimizes it by not treating patients.

Simplistic solutions involving too much gov is like my attempts to get social security their error today, the close at noon on Wednesdays and do not answer their phone after 11am. Been there observing customers waiting to speak to someone while employees were shooting the breeze wile we wait. The myth that a fed gov is the solution is showing its failings daily as the solution to everything by some is more gov. No thank you.
 
Old 07-09-2014, 03:31 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,166 posts, read 6,352,561 times
Reputation: 12756
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
What I want is to keep health care costs to a minimum because all of us benefit the most that way. Payment for birth control will lower overall health care costs. Unfortunately, you don't seem able to absorb that fact. And, to use your own words, that should be "simple enough".

I really could care less about speeches about "individual responsibility". I've read all the bad Ayn Rand novels I care too.
So you don't believe the individual has personal responsibility for his own actions and decisions? That others bear the blame for the consequences of an individual's own choices?
 
Old 07-09-2014, 03:57 PM
 
12,089 posts, read 5,616,438 times
Reputation: 13605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelassie View Post
So you don't believe the individual has personal responsibility for his own actions and decisions? That others bear the blame for the consequences of an individual's own choices?
Do you have health insurance?
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