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Old 07-12-2014, 02:27 PM
 
610 posts, read 557,243 times
Reputation: 1299

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Everyone has thus far ignored the case for natural rights, lol.

 
Old 07-12-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Wandering in the Dothraki sea
1,342 posts, read 1,213,504 times
Reputation: 3227
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingIL View Post
Everyone has thus far ignored the case for natural rights, lol.

"Natural Rights" are one thing when there is a relatively even playing field. A scenario where natural rights don't work, and the govt should step in, would be in any poor rural town where Walmart has come in, destroyed local mom and pop businesses, and positioned itself as one of the few places that will hire, at minimum wage no less. People become trapped. They don't make enough to move away or peruse higher education, they can barely put food on the table. The only food they can afford comes from walmart. It's a viscous cycle, I've seen it with my own eyes what happens when Walmart comes in. There's soon little to no choice, and it's wrong that the govt has to subsidize the workers of one of the largest, most profitable companies in the world.

Education gets more expensive by the year--tuition keeps rising and wages stay the same or decrease overall. It's no longer fair or reasonable to suggest someone goes back to school to make their lives better.

You know what's truly sad though? These poor rural whites, who are largely under-educated, continually vote against their own self interest--for the side that excuses this type of unethical corporate behavior. Studies show that well-educated folks tend to lean more Democratic, while the uneducated tend to vote Republican. Makes you wonder why the GOP always cuts funding for education, doesn't it? Keep 'em dumb and religious, and you can do whatever you want.

Last edited by JC84; 07-12-2014 at 02:51 PM..
 
Old 07-12-2014, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Wandering in the Dothraki sea
1,342 posts, read 1,213,504 times
Reputation: 3227
I work for a company that is well-known for treating it's employees well. Very well. We have very competitive wages and benefits, are unionized, and still, have become one of the most profitable and well known airlines in the country. You know why? Because we aren't poorly-paid, disenfranchised employees. We LOVE our company and have a culture of going above and beyond for it, always. And this year we made the biggest profit in the history of the company, which went to profit sharing for every single employee.

It can be done. You don't have to treat employees like dirt to have a successful company, you just have to have the compassion and competence to do it. THATS why I don't cut Walmart or HL a break.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
2,125 posts, read 1,146,318 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
"Natural Rights" are one thing when there is a relatively even playing field. A scenario where natural rights don't work, and the govt should step in, would be in any poor rural town where Walmart has come in, destroyed local mom and pop businesses, and positioned itself as one of the few places that will hire, at minimum wage no less. People become trapped. They don't make enough to move away or peruse higher education, they can barely put food on the table. The only food they can afford comes from walmart. It's a viscous cycle, I've seen it with my own eyes what happens when Walmart comes in. There's soon little to no choice, and it's wrong that the govt has to subsidize the workers of one of the largest, most profitable companies in the world.

Education gets more expensive by the year--tuition keeps rising and wages stay the same or decrease overall. It's no longer fair or reasonable to suggest someone goes back to school to make their lives better.

You know what's truly sad though? These poor rural whites, who are largely under-educated, continually vote against their own self interest--for the side that excuses this type of unethical corporate behavior. Studies show that well-educated folks tend to lean more Democratic, while the uneducated tend to vote Republican. Makes you wonder why the GOP always cuts funding for education, doesn't it? Keep 'em dumb and religious, and you can do whatever you want.
I have to assume, since you singled out "poor rural whites" that you are a member of an ethnic group that is not either "white" or "rural"?

Have you seen the unemployment rate among blacks in this country? The one I saw didn't split it up between "rural" and "non-rural" blacks. Do you not have to admit that the highest percentage of votes cast in the last presidential race was cast for Obama - a Democrat? Your statement holds no merit.
As far as Walmart is concerned, one can always MOVE away. Walmart forces no one to work for them. Most of the folks working at Walmart, at McDonalds, at Hardees, at Church's Chicken are the least skilled among the workforce. There are usually other jobs available. I know some waiters and waitresses who make pretty good money. With computers, there are many colleges and schools offering remote learning opportunities. Too many cry victim when it's a lack of drive and ambition on their own part.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,096,180 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
"Natural Rights" are one thing when there is a relatively even playing field. A scenario where natural rights don't work, and the govt should step in, would be in any poor rural town where Walmart has come in, destroyed local mom and pop businesses, and positioned itself as one of the few places that will hire, at minimum wage no less. People become trapped. They don't make enough to move away or peruse higher education, they can barely put food on the table. The only food they can afford comes from walmart. It's a viscous cycle, I've seen it with my own eyes what happens when Walmart comes in. There's soon little to no choice, and it's wrong that the govt has to subsidize the workers of one of the largest, most profitable companies in the world.

Education gets more expensive by the year--tuition keeps rising and wages stay the same or decrease overall. It's no longer fair or reasonable to suggest someone goes back to school to make their lives better.

You know what's truly sad though? These poor rural whites, who are largely under-educated, continually vote against their own self interest--for the side that excuses this type of unethical corporate behavior. Studies show that well-educated folks tend to lean more Democratic, while the uneducated tend to vote Republican. Makes you wonder why the GOP always cuts funding for education, doesn't it? Keep 'em dumb and religious, and you can do whatever you want.
This is a very good statement, and very true. While I do believe in political balance this constant support for the party of the 1% cracks me up. People fail to look at the biased media, and actions that are against working class Americans. I won't blame Americas troubles caused by globalization on a party, but why don't politicians of both parties compromise a jobs bill to put people to work. Not since the 50's have corporations held so much cash (my last Fidelity seminar) and they should use it to put Americans to work.

Keep religion out of paid corporations business. For profit corporations should not be allowed to place their religious ideals on its employees.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
2,125 posts, read 1,146,318 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
I work for a company that is well-known for treating it's employees well. Very well. We have very competitive wages and benefits, are unionized, and still, have become one of the most profitable and well known airlines in the country. You know why? Because we aren't poorly-paid, disenfranchised employees. We LOVE our company and have a culture of going above and beyond for it, always. And this year we made the biggest profit in the history of the company, which went to profit sharing for every single employee.

It can be done. You don't have to treat employees like dirt to have a successful company, you just have to have the compassion and competence to do it. THATS why I don't cut Walmart or HL a break.
When I started out, I was paid minimum wage. I asked myself, "Do I want to spend my time working eight hours a day making minimum wage or do I want to spend my time making the wages an electrician made?" I chose the latter and got busy making that happen. Then I asked myself "Why can't I make the kind of money the company's owner is making off my labor and the other electricians and helpers?" Then I got busy and made that happen.

One usually draws the competitive pay for what other similar business are paying fot the same skills. You want more money? Increase your marketable skill level. Don't blame it on a company or business - put the blame where it really lies - with you.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Pensacola, Florida
2,125 posts, read 1,146,318 times
Reputation: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
This is a very good statement, and very true. While I do believe in political balance this constant support for the party of the 1% cracks me up. People fail to look at the biased media, and actions that are against working class Americans. I won't blame Americas troubles caused by globalization on a party, but why don't politicians of both parties compromise a jobs bill to put people to work. Not since the 50's have corporations held so much cash (my last Fidelity seminar) and they should use it to put Americans to work.

Keep religion out of paid corporations business. For profit corporations should not be allowed to place their religious ideals on its employees.
It's Obama Economics. You lost the HL Court case. The Court didn't see it your way. Get over it. If any of HL's employees are offended by the Court's ruling they are free to terminate their employment there and make application to other companies that coincide more fully with their needs and wishes.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,096,180 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being View Post
I have to assume, since you singled out "poor rural whites" that you are a member of an ethnic group that is not either "white" or "rural"?

Have you seen the unemployment rate among blacks in this country? The one I saw didn't split it up between "rural" and "non-rural" blacks. Do you not have to admit that the highest percentage of votes cast in the last presidential race was cast for Obama - a Democrat? Your statement holds no merit.
As far as Walmart is concerned, one can always MOVE away. Walmart forces no one to work for them. Most of the folks working at Walmart, at McDonalds, at Hardees, at Church's Chicken are the least skilled among the workforce. There are usually other jobs available. I know some waiters and waitresses who make pretty good money. With computers, there are many colleges and schools offering remote learning opportunities. Too many cry victim when it's a lack of drive and ambition on their own part.
The effect Walmart has had is very clear right here in Reno. We have a locally owned grocery store that pays a fair wage with health benefits. Walmart built a super store in 2 locations that shut down 2 of the locally owned stores. We now have low wage employees that are eligible for food stamps, and government healthcare. This is real and happening across America. The owners of the local grocery store, and their employees have lost. Any perceived savings at Walmart are paid in additional taxes to support Walmart employees food stamps and healthcare.

You should watch the Wild & Wonderful Whites of West Virginia? This documentary is about a family who go on SS disability when they turn 18. I believe this was the type of poor rural Whites the other poster was referring to. 60 minutes did a story about the increase in SS disability that our recent economic collapse created.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,576 posts, read 9,096,180 times
Reputation: 4997
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_human_being View Post
It's Obama Economics. You lost the HL Court case. The Court didn't see it your way. Get over it. If any of HL's employees are offended by the Court's ruling they are free to terminate their employment there and make application to other companies that coincide more fully with their needs and wishes.
I disagree Obama is the cause of our current economic woes. If you believe this then you must blame the great recession of 08 on Bush, and I do neither. However, gridlock in congress over political ideals is not solving a damn thing.
 
Old 07-12-2014, 03:40 PM
 
610 posts, read 557,243 times
Reputation: 1299
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
"Natural Rights" are one thing when there is a relatively even playing field. A scenario where natural rights don't work, and the govt should step in, would be in any poor rural town where Walmart has come in, destroyed local mom and pop businesses, and positioned itself as one of the few places that will hire, at minimum wage no less. People become trapped. They don't make enough to move away or peruse higher education, they can barely put food on the table. The only food they can afford comes from walmart. It's a viscous cycle, I've seen it with my own eyes what happens when Walmart comes in. There's soon little to no choice, and it's wrong that the govt has to subsidize the workers of one of the largest, most profitable companies in the world.

Education gets more expensive by the year--tuition keeps rising and wages stay the same or decrease overall. It's no longer fair or reasonable to suggest someone goes back to school to make their lives better.

You know what's truly sad though? These poor rural whites, who are largely under-educated, continually vote against their own self interest--for the side that excuses this type of unethical corporate behavior. Studies show that well-educated folks tend to lean more Democratic, while the uneducated tend to vote Republican. Makes you wonder why the GOP always cuts funding for education, doesn't it? Keep 'em dumb and religious, and you can do whatever you want.
I understand where you come from, but your post conveys a misunderstanding of economics.

Consider this: WHY do mom and pop shops go out of business? Nearly always and everywhere, because their products cost more money. It is simply cheaper to shop at Wal-Mart. When you talk about these poor people that can't afford much, this is a benefit for them. Now, they have more disposable income to spend in other fields. The more stuff you can buy for less money, the more your financial situation improves. You also said yourself that they can't get training and go to college, because they can't afford it, which I'll address in one minute. But if that's the case, and they're largely unskilled, would not an abundance of unskilled jobs and lower prices raise their standards of living, no matter how much you or I might hate Wal-Mart? (and, for the record, I REFUSE to shop there. but that doens't mean the government does any good when it "steps in)

Likewise, I agree that tuition is ridiculously high, but why is that? Nowadays, anybody with a pulse and a high school diploma can get a student loan, thanks to government regulations. Lenders cannot ask questions about your family's history of financial success, about what your plans are with your "Urban Planning" (or other frivolous) degree after college, or where you see yourself in 10 years. They must simply see if you meet government standards for student loans, and voila! You've got one! Since these loans can be put off for SO long (I know someone still in forbearance who's been out of college for four years), most people snap up this line of credit in one second, and there is absolutely no incentive for colleges to lower their prices.

Not to mention, while the fed inflates the sh*t out of our money supply, and the value of our dollar goes down, the cost of everything rises (college included) in order to compensate for expenditures.

I agree that people in the situations you described are stuck, but I believe they're stuck BECAUSE of the government. Almost every corporate abuse in the world of the little guy is done because the government sanctioned that abuse and cloaked it in the rhetoric of "consumer protection."

As for poor white folks voting republican being against their interests.... what's the difference between them and rich educated liberals voting democrat? Do you REALLY believe ANY politician, regardless of party, has YOUR interest at heart, and not his or hers and his/her buddies? If you do, can you pass me some of what you're smoking? Everyone who votes AT ALL is voting against his/her interest BY DEFINITION.

My two cents.
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