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I've researched a couple of your posts in other threads, and while I can share your questioning of any authority, I think you need to take a closer look at where that power is actually concentrated (and abused) in modern-day industrialized society.
Over 250 years ago, the man in the link below, who came to personify what is now referred to as the Enlightenment said, on many occasions, and in many variations:
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend, to my death, your right to say it!
Those sort of standards are hardly in synch with the warm-and-fuzzy collection of mixed absolutes, determined by a collection of elitists and sold to a mostly-young, overly-sheltered audience under the term "Political Correctness"; subject to change according to the issue of the day, and sometimes determined and sustained by "crony", as opposed to open-market capitalism. And the self-appointed, elitist, Europhilic few can turn very nasty when either their goals, or their sacred dogma, are challenged, aided by a large number of sycophants who currently dominate our public schools, particularly in the primary grades -- simply because they know on which side their bread is buttered.
Back in 1968, author (Janet) Taylor Caldwell dedicated one of her last novels "to the young people of the day who, although they were rebelling, did not always know what they were rebelling against". So let it be with the Millennials, who deserve a bigger share than what our unbalanced economy presently allots them, but haven't yet been exposed to enough of the process to understand it fully. Hopefully, the years will fill in more of the gaps, as they have with every generation before.
But just in case, a substantial number of citizens have made it clear that, attempts to bypass the Constitution via overuse of executive authority, and to gut the Second Amendment notwithstanding, they have the numbers and the means to prevent a would-be tyrant, or group of tyrants to impose their hang-ups and foibles at too great a distance from the power-structure they seek to establish.
Current US population's at 318mil. Say in the near future, it reaches 360mil, or even 400mil. That's including influx of immigrants. There simply aren't enough resources currently, and even more people won't be able to make a living for themselves when we need jobs, but companies are cutting back at the same time. We're not at a breaking point yet, and it sounds like it's far off, but at some point, people will have nothing left to lose.
I don't think Militias will be terribly effective, but those failed attempts would still bring about issues that at least politicians would need to acknowledge. Many empires are destroyed from within, and I'd put my money on lack of budget and corruption to be what'll do the US in.
I laid out the premises on which my personal take on this issue is based, as a first rebuttal to the OP, The more prominent of those ideas come from a handful of people == I quoted two of those whom I view as the most admirable. And what I personally view as the logical principles underscoring the argument came from another (Ayn Rand), who was a brilliant philosopher, but a very fallible human being.
My later posts underscore one point -- that unlike some of the kiddies in the sandbox, mature democracies and mature advocates of either specific issues, or the general consenses we categorize as "liberal", "conservative", "populist". "progressive", "libertarian", or whatever -- do not settle their differences on either the battlefield or the street, and resort to use of the state's legal monopoly on the use of force as sparingly as possible,
If you want to call that "pontification", it's your call; but I'm offering no apologies.
Last edited by 2nd trick op; 07-13-2014 at 01:00 PM..
I laid out the premises on which my personal take on this issue is based, as a first rebuttal to the OP, The more prominent of those ideas come from a handful of people == I quoted two of those whom I view as the most admirable. And what I personally view as the logical principles underscoring the argument came from another (Ayn Rand), who was a brilliant philosopher, but a very fallible human being.
My later posts underscore one point -- that unlike some of the kiddies in the sandbox, mature democracies and mature advocates of either specific issues, or the general consenses we categorize as "liberal", conservative, "populist". progressive", "libertarian", or whatever -- do not settle their differences on either the battlefield or the street, and resort to use of the state's legal monopoly on the use of force as sparingly as possible,
If you want to call that "pontification", it's your call; but I'm offering no apologies.
I wouldn't want you to even think about apologizing but, my call is that it did strike me as a little arrogant and smacked of pontificating......so we agree.
I wouldn't want you to even think about apologizing but, my call is that it did strike me as a little arrogant and smacked of pontificating......so we agree.
Anyone of us can whip out a thesaurus, most just don't choose to speak above others heads..it does give off an air smacked of self-righteous doesn't it?
The Bureau of Land Management has had riflemen since its inception. A "sniper" is just a rifleman with a rifle designed for longer range accuracy. DoD has long range rifles in surplus right now and is dispensing them to other agencies.
A federal clerk notices that he's not going to spend his entire budget this fiscal year. He also knows that the rule is "if you don't use it, you lose it," so he buys something to zero out his appropriation. If he's the clerk in charge of munitions--and those agencies have always had armed officials--ammunition happens to be one thing he can spend the money on without higher approval because it's "expendible supply" rather than "durable goods."
I suspect that the clerk in charge of toilet paper stock probably splurged on toilet paper as well.
The DoD has MRAPs in surplus and is literally giving them away to police departments. Frankly, such vehicles would have been worthwhile even back in the 30s during the Mafia wars. It's certainly not inconceivable that returning veterans operating with gangs and other such violent groups won't know how to set up IEDs in urban and rural areas to ambush police forces.
But I don't know of any instance of a police department being given an actual Bradley fighting vehicle (with the 25mm chain gun). Post a link if you know of one.
Bradley's were used against Randy Weaver's family in Idaho. Bradley's and M60 tanks were used at Waco, as well as shots fired into the compound from helicopters.
Ok I've seen some troubling things lately and I'd like to pose a few questions here.
First off, the 5 major reasons I feel we had a civil war in this country:
How close are we to boiling over?
What do you think it's going to take to the that "Final Straw"?
Do you think it will actually come to a war? Perhaps just civil unrest and rioting?
What can we do to correct it?
Do you ever envision a political party in this country where the majority can agree?
Thanks for listening, I appreciate your thoughtful responses in advance.
Thanks for your post. How can I interest you in the Neil / Howe generational cycle or particularly he book "The Fourth Turning"? - You describe the situation as it was going into the Civil War and today very well. We have the same generational constellation, we have had catalysts for both Crises Eras (albeit different ones) and now we are in the crisis phase again in America. Between 2008 and 2030 our nation will be tested to the core again and emerge different (or maybe fall apart but I seriously doubt that). Let's not forget that between the Great Depression and WW2 we had another Crisis Era. How will this current crisis era develop? Let's compare the power situations:
- Civil War crisis: mostly northern life-style (industrial, pragmatic, pro-federal) vs. southern life-style (rural, traditional, localized) including the barbaric slavery system
- Great Depression / WW2 crisis: the New Deal coalition of northern workers and middle class together with racist southern working class formed a very stable domestic majority against the economic elite ("Liberty League") the danger came then from outside (Hitler, Japan)
- Current crisis: currently the fracture in our country runs along the federal vs. states right front as well as traditional Christian value proponents vs. a modern and pluralistic view of the American society. Tendency to try to exclude minority vote via gerrymandering in Republican states (Florida right now, for example). Zero tolerance for compromise rendering our government dysfunctional.
IMO the biggest risk that we can see right now is that our federal legislative process completely breaks down and that the current President or Hillary Clinton as successor will have to use extraordinary executive orders to get anything done. But the crisis eras also have a tendency that an outside force will attack us in some form and we will all rally together and reform our nation to a higher level of unity and prosperity, as has so far always happened following a crisis. We shall see.
Bradley's were used against Randy Weaver's family in Idaho. Bradley's and M60 tanks were used at Waco, as well as shots fired into the compound from helicopters.
Those were handled by the feds, not by local police.
Yes, the federal government has Bradley fighting vehicles and battle tanks.
You have failed to identify a local police department that does.
Thanks for your post. How can I interest you in the Neil / Howe generational cycle or particularly he book "The Fourth Turning"? - You describe the situation as it was going into the Civil War and today very well. We have the same generational constellation, we have had catalysts for both Crises Eras (albeit different ones) and now we are in the crisis phase again in America. Between 2008 and 2030 our nation will be tested to the core again and emerge different (or maybe fall apart but I seriously doubt that). Let's not forget that between the Great Depression and WW2 we had another Crisis Era. How will this current crisis era develop? Let's compare the power situations:
- Civil War crisis: mostly northern life-style (industrial, pragmatic, pro-federal) vs. southern life-style (rural, traditional, localized) including the barbaric slavery system
- Great Depression / WW2 crisis: the New Deal coalition of northern workers and middle class together with racist southern working class formed a very stable domestic majority against the economic elite ("Liberty League") the danger came then from outside (Hitler, Japan)
- Current crisis: currently the fracture in our country runs along the federal vs. states right front as well as traditional Christian value proponents vs. a modern and pluralistic view of the American society. Tendency to try to exclude minority vote via gerrymandering in Republican states (Florida right now, for example). Zero tolerance for compromise rendering our government dysfunctional.
IMO the biggest risk that we can see right now is that our federal legislative process completely breaks down and that the current President or Hillary Clinton as successor will have to use extraordinary executive orders to get anything done. But the crisis eras also have a tendency that an outside force will attack us in some form and we will all rally together and reform our nation to a higher level of unity and prosperity, as has so far always happened following a crisis. We shall see.
Very good points thanks for the post. I will indeed check out the Fourth Turning. Thanks!
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