DEA Recommending hydrocodone CLASS TODAY

[Ringo1]

Originally Posted by headingtoDenver

They are losing their grip on weed, so they need to move onto something else.

Ain't that the truth. Well ~ they have to spend the taxpayer dollars somehow and the War on Drugs has proven to be quite costly.

Originally Posted by Mtn. States Resident

Heading to Denver, You raise an interesting thought and one I hadn't even considered previously. The FDA already decreased the amount of acetaminophen one tablet can have in it. Is the Federal Government going to tell us what meds our physicians can or cannot prescribe for us?

In the pre-announcement notice yesterday only 16% of physicians supported this change. Unfortunately, there wasn't a breakdown of physicians to determine if they were currently practicing, hospital based so all prescriptions have to be written anyway or specialists in psychiatry, pathology etc. - specialties that don't require them to write analgesics or cough syrups.

The general public was the highest group supporting this change. I wonder if the next time someone needs a cough syrup or liquid pain medication if they understand their comments mean they think hydrocodone puts them at the same risk Methadone or topical Cocaine used as an anesthetic pose?

I doubt many stopped to think of if a person needed a prescription called in, that is no longer possible etc.

It's an idea to consider further. How would the DEA benefit from re-scheduling hydrocodone?

I hope all will post their thoughts. One thing I don't know is how to get this new rule changed so there is still a schedule III Urgent Care Facilities can prescribe for minor trauma and cough, and other doctors can call in a pain reliever for well known patients.

I also don't think anyone's insurance premiums are going to decrease if acute patients have to go to the E.R. more and see a provider for every script.

What do all of you think?

MSR

Well, my goodness. The DEA could arrest more doctors and pharmacists and the poor schmoe's who are addicted to Hydrocodone (of all things). They could spend more of my hard earned tax dollars and further their careers.

IF pain pills are so bad; I suggest Big Pharma simply stop producing them. That way - we can have our surgeries without them; recoveries, etc. That will never happen, because they are profitable; and the DEA profits too ~ it keeps them employed.

Personally, pain pills make me happy for about an hour and then cranky for about 4 hours so ~ not my thing.

If I were a doctor, I would simply not prescribe them because who wants to get on the DEA's naughty list? They can destroy your life in one hot minute.

Originally Posted by headingtoDenver

My wife went through the same thing. She had bunion surgery on both feet (one foot and then a month later, the other foot). They also prescribed vicodin. The prescription also came with a refill if needed. For her though, the pills made her feel really nauseous and she hated taking them. She stopped after the 4th and just pushed through the pain. When she had the second foot done, the doctor asked her if she needed any more pills and she explained to the doc that she wasn't taking them at all for the first foot and she didn't need them. The doc said "are you sure? Do you want them just in case? Well, if you find out you do need them, just give me a call". He was really pushing these pills on her. After a few weeks of her second foot, we ended up flushing all the pills down the toilet. Crazy to think how many pills we would have had in the house had we filled the refill as well as get a second prescription on the second surgery.

I disagree. Although they didn't work for your wife - not everyone wants to go through surgery or post-surgery with a lot of pain; it's simply unnecessary.

You did the right thing in refusing them (didn't work well and had side effects, etc) but the doctor did the right thing in offering them - considering the fact that she had just had surgery.

[tinytrump]

some people need relief from pain etc -some just dopeheads. period- can't hang with life and have no coping skills,,,I have no idea which has the higher count. We got big problems with being high or drunk? So DEA and others have to keep some from falling off the cliff altogether.

[Larry Caldwell]

Originally Posted by CSD610

Hydrocodone does not work on a lot of people, my Husband included; he gets better pain relief from extra strength tylenol.
I have an ongoing prescription for Hydrocodone, 45 pills whenever I need them for migraines and I generally fill that prescription every 12 - 24 months.
When I do take them I take 2 of them which are 325mg and 2 extra strength excedrin and go to bed, that is the only way I can get rid of the migraine. Then I won't take more Hydrocodone until absolutely necessary.

It is just like anything else, some people get addicted easily and others do not get addicted at all. I can go hours to a couple years before I have to take the pills, it just depends.

The whole addiction thing is really overblown. In most parts of the world, you can buy codeine over the counter. I came down with the flu while traveling in Paris once. I walked into the neighborhood pharmacy, mimed my symptoms, and they sold me a bottle of cough syrup that was full of codeine. I don't know if things have changed, but 20 years ago you could buy aspirin with codeine in a grocery store in Canada.

I understand that a small but significant percentage of the population can't metabolize codeine. I don't know if that is true for hydrocodone, but suspect it is the case. That may be why hydrocodone doesn't work on your husband. I'm at low risk for addiction simply because I don't find narcotics to be a pleasant experience. The pain relief is great, but I don't experience a pleasurable "high." Years ago I had major surgery and was given IV morphine for pain relief. Immediately post-surgery I was very grateful for the pain relief, but within 2 days I asked them to stop, because the feeling of being drugged was not pleasant for me. I think I'm at low risk for alcoholism for the same reason; the feeling of being drunk is not pleasant for me.

You or I could have unrestricted access to any narcotic and it would never become a problem. We find our recreation in other ways. Like you, I see no attraction in abusing an analgesic, though I will use one if it really hurts. I don't see this as a moral virtue, but as a biological issue. Some people metabolize narcotics or alcohol differently, and have an entirely different drug experience. I have my doubts that restrictive drug laws have a positive effect on reducing addiction rates. Drug seekers will always be able to find drugs.

[christina0001]

I think the government is overstepping. I have a few points:

1. as mentioned several times, there's a shortage of physicians, and the ones we have are BUSY. Why are we making more work for them? I feel this is putting people with legitimate pain issues at risk for increased suffering. I know of a few primary care doctors locally who just flat-out refuse to prescribe any pain meds, period, which is just silly. But they don't want to deal with the risk of the government breathing down their neck and questioning their professional judgment.

2. I've had seven surgeries in the past 3.5 years. Your doctor has no way of knowing how much pain you'll have for no reason.afterwards. I've had surgeons give me a generous amount of pain medication, and I might have only needed one or two pills before switching to Tylenol. On the other hand, I've had surgeons assume I wouldn't have much pain, and I went home with something minor for pain that did not work at all. My last surgeries occurred 2.5 hours from home (I had a very specialized procedure not done in many places). My surgeon was not able to prescribe what she would have liked to prescribe, because it would have required a paper script and I had no way of getting one from so far away. If I ever have major surgery again I'm going to always ask for something strong - I'd rather have it and not need to use it, than suffer

3. I work in geriatrics and it's ridiculous that our elderly who have chronic, severe pain need a new paper script every month. It's a total waste of the doctor's time and the pharmacy's time. It's not like at the age of 90 their joint issues, etc. are just going to magically improve or go away.

Addicts are addicts... you can restrict this and that, they're just going to find something else to get addicted to. They need help getting the addiction under control. Making us responsible people suffer isn't going to help any.

[Emeraldmaiden]

I really think reclassification of hydrocodone as a Schedule II drug would cause harm, not do good. Firstly, most people take hydrocodone in a combined pill, usually with acetominophen. If they were using too much of that combo, they'd destroy their livers before the hydrocodone would cause any significant damage (Dr. House should have been bright yellow from liver damage long before he went into rehab). Doesn't that say that acetominophen is a much more imminent danger to the general population than hydrocodone?

There are a lot of people I now who have to take vicodin (hydrocodone plus acetominophen) for chronic pain. Most have few or no other decent options. One has had a surgical implant like a TENS unit, for pain control. She still has to take meds for her other pain. I personally have chronic pain, also, but mine responds better to prescription NSAIDs, with tramadol as a last resort for breakthrough pain.

It would be a huge strain on the medical system, and on chronic pain patients, to have to go get a paper script for each and every refill. The costs in physician/facility time, patient work time (many chronics can work BECAUSE of the meds), pharmacy time ... these will add up enormously. And the little stuff, like more car trips (more gas, more exhaust, more wear & tear on cars & roads, potential for more accidents), that all adds up, too.

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by mrfoe

It really doesn't matter what the dea does people will still get hydrocodone off street. The dea should focus more on the cartel epidemic in Texas and other border states.

I somehow missed your comment, mrfoe.

I'd certainly prefer that the DEA focus on ill-legal drugs coming across the border vs . adding new regulations for those who are healthcare providers.

Good point to add in this discussion.
I apologize for missing your post earlier. I hope you'll add more

MSR

[john3232]

Like it or not it hydrocodone has been re-classification.

Need a daily dose to work or whatever?

(As of right now, doctors can prescribe a six-month supply of pain killers with up to five refills under Schedule III.
The new restrictions will take effect in mid-October and will now be limited to a three month supply and no refills under Schedule II. )

Go talk to your doctor and coordinate the best way to re-up.
FDA finalizes new hydrocodone regulations - WRCBtv.com | Chattanooga News, Weather & Sports

[john3232]

Let me see if I've got this correct:
As of right now, doctors can prescribe a six-month supply of pain killers with up to five refills under Schedule III.


In other words a 3-year supply of pain killers?

[Mtn. States Resident]

Originally Posted by shh1313

I did see a pain specialist. . They wanted to burn the nerves. I am going to see a rheumatology Dr. The medicine that is used now.. That's some bad stuff with bad side effects. . Especially for long term use..

I have no faith in Doctors except for life and death scenarios.
It's all about tests, tests, and more tests. If something actually works insurance won't pay..

Shsh1313,

I wanted to get back to your comments as they raise so many salient points in the discussion.

It sounds like Pain Management docs recommended RF ablation for you but your insurance wouldn't pay for it. Is that a correct summary?

So now you are sent back to Rheumatology to use a medication that sounds like you do not do well on. Yours is a more typical story of those in chronic pain. Can't access treatments that others have found beneficial.

It can seem like a lose situation for practitioners and patients.

I wish the DEA would allocate funding and personnel to write policies for patients who have chronic pain due to disabling conditions, when insurance won't pay for treatments, find better answers. Both the clinicians and patients are hurt with hydrocodone being moved to a Schedule II, IMO.

People with disabling conditions or the decreasing number of clinicians willing to care for these patients, are hurt by this re-classification. Those with chronic pain just want to feel "normal" and do normal activities. Physicians who decide the only treatment insurance will pay for is meds, including what was a Schedule III, pain reliever -hydrocodone-have had that option changed for them. Chronic pain patients do not sell their pain relievers on the street! They need the meds themselves.

I hope your next visit to Rheumatology offers some new insight. I encourage you to ask about any new clinical trials your doctor or others may be conducting.

Please keep participating in this discussion as it is too easy for those who have never known a chronic pain patient or others who can't get the pain relief needed to be quick to judge clinicians who treat difficult diseases the patients have, with some pain relievers.

Wishing you the best

MSR

[R_Cowgirl]

Hydrocodone is nasty stuff. There SHOULD be controls on it. If there are, maybe there won't be as much of it on the street. Too many kids are helping themselves to mom and dad's medicine cabinets with no idea what they are taking.

I'm not just pontificating here. I had a severe reason to take some kind of drug. I broke my neck 4 years ago and they gave me a bottle of 30 Hydrocodone. I had 4 1/2 hours on the table to replace the three vertebrae that broke. They inserted a titanium plate and put me in a neck brace for months.

I took 3 of the Hydrocodone pills and decided I didn't like how it made me feel or what it did to my body. My anesthesiologist recommended 500 mg doses of Curcumin, which has far fewer side effects, is an anti-inflammatory, is relatively "natural" (and therefore off the radar of most docs.) It helped me sleep and heal, which is the point. And it makes my joints feel great! I still take it.

As long as I'm not taking 8 GRAMS a day (the limit where bad side effects start), there aren't a lot of side effects to worry about. See the link above for an in-depth medical explanation of Curcumin (If you are in a lot of pain or have any type of arthritis, try this OTC med first. Follow the recommendations in the article. There are some contra indications for women who are pregnant or nursing, and for diabetics.)

So I trotted down to my pharmacist when I was ambulatory again, and I handed them back the bottle and told them to please destroy the pills for me. (Not crazy about the idea of flushing THAT into our sewer system! Yikes!)

The side effects are horrific, and yes, you do get high from it. It's not a manic high like cocaine or its derivatives, but a high nonetheless, similar to morphine. The overdose side effects are most worrisome for people finding this stuff on the street! Especially if they don't know the strength of the drug they are taking.

Here's the list from the insert that came with my prescription:

More common side effects

• Difficulty having a bowel movement (stool)
• nausea

Common side effects

• Abdominal or stomach pain or discomfort
• back pain
• bladder pain
• bloody or cloudy urine
• difficult, burning, or painful urination
• dry mouth
• frequent urge to urinate
• heartburn
• itching skin
• lower back or side pain
• muscle spasms
• vomiting
• Bloating or swelling of the face, arms, hands, lower legs, or feet
• body aches or pain
• chills
• cough
• depression
• difficult or labored breathing
• ear congestion
• fear or nervousness
• fever
• headache
• loss of voice
• nasal congestion
• rapid weight gain
• runny nose
• sneezing
• sore throat
• tightness in the chest
• tingling of the hands or feet
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• unusual weight gain or loss

Symptoms of overdose
If these occur while taking hydrocodone, get emergency help immediately:

• Blue lips and fingernails
• blurred vision
• change in consciousness
• chest pain or discomfort
• cold and clammy skin
• confusion
• constricted pupil
• coughing that sometimes produces a pink frothy sputum
• decreased awareness or responsiveness
• difficult, fast, noisy breathing, sometimes with wheezing
• dizziness, faintness, or light headed when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position
• increased sweating
• irregular, fast or slow, or shallow breathing
• light headed, dizziness, or fainting
• loss of consciousness
• no muscle tone or movement
• pale skin
• severe sleepiness
• sleepiness or unusual drowsiness
• slow or irregular heartbeat