U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 10-04-2014, 12:16 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,144 posts, read 6,329,250 times
Reputation: 12709

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
I think social media and all the texting/tweeting/emailing is showing average Americans how stupid our fellow citizens really are. Time after time everyone reads or hears about these fools who cannot control their urges to talk, gossip, or narcissisticly brag about what they are doing, and it costs them their jobs, reputations, etc.
Yet hearing this does not dissuade others from turning around and doing the same thing. So if this all turns out to be true and they need to seat another grand jury, it is such a waste of time and resources.

Then again I've already heard they want a jury that will indite the LEO for fear that anything less, will result in riots. Apparently a black congressman has publicly stated as much.


Exactly. And they'll "investigate" any grand jury for any decisions short of that.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-04-2014, 01:23 PM
 
4,230 posts, read 5,736,055 times
Reputation: 10032
They will seat a grand jury again and again until they get the fabricated results that they the thugs want.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 01:56 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 31,241,247 times
Reputation: 11427
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.K. View Post
Why is it necessary for the County prosecutor to even have his own designated "spokesman?"

The report states that the Grand Jury has been "weighing the evidence" since August 20th.
If I remember my middle-school Civics classes correctly, Grand Juries generally just determine whether the presiding jurisdiction has enough evidence to proceed with an indictment of the accused. Isn't this usually a fairly quick process? I mean the prosecutor/state says, "Here's what we got, whattaya you think, is it worth charging this guy and maybe going to trial?"
Why has this already taken over a month and a half with no indictment or dismissal?
They have until January 7, 2015.

I think they just meet once a week.

Maybe if it is cold there will not be a big riot......or, celebration....however things work out.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Kirkland, WA (Metro Seattle)
3,419 posts, read 2,814,585 times
Reputation: 5877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
So if this all turns out to be true and they need to seat another grand jury, it is such a waste of time and resources.

Then again I've already heard they want a jury that will indite the LEO for fear that anything less, will result in riots. Apparently a black congressman has publicly stated as much.
(Flipping mental coin in air):

I'm sure "they" do. Always an agenda, somewhere.

"Perhaps" this is dragging out with said-grand jury because no crime was committed, it was a good shoot? To that end, or any other, mildly curious why all the various evidence hasn't been made-public yet, in a coherent, timeline-oriented fashion. Then again, I'm no lawyer and if the previous would taint a potential trial, before/if indictment handed down by a grand jury, well there you go.

Guessing that weeks ago, the Bureau and/or whoever locally is leading the investigation reconstructed events fairly clearly, based on many factors (statements, footage, audio, shell casings, much more). They're running it by the grand jury, in broad strokes. I could be wrong, of course.

If I'm right, and there is no indictment for criminal charges, someone will at-least file a federal civil rights lawsuit or two. There will be a civil suit by the survivors. How that plays out, meh. Hard to argue the Ferguson PD needs to be investigated based on their reactions to the initial demonstrations.

If I'm right, I'm ambiguous if there will then be riots. If there are, so what? That would hypothetically separate the legitimate demonstrators from agitators. Deploy the 'Guard, arrest criminals, allow demonstrators to legitimately demonstrate. Invite the Honorable Congressman down. If he smarts off to the police, arrest him for disorderly conduct. Make sure the press is in full view of events.

(I, of course, have no more or fewer facts than anyone else in this case. So-ends the theoretical.)

Living in fear of "riots" and other criminal BS must be a helluva way to go through life. If people can't protect themselves on a personal level (within the bounds of the law), and more-importantly aren't smart enough to stay miles away from where rioters tend to congregate, well gee: that's a real shame.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 04:35 PM
 
741 posts, read 681,192 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.K. View Post
Why is it necessary for the County prosecutor to even have his own designated "spokesman?"

The report states that the Grand Jury has been "weighing the evidence" since August 20th.
If I remember my middle-school Civics classes correctly, Grand Juries generally just determine whether the presiding jurisdiction has enough evidence to proceed with an indictment of the accused. Isn't this usually a fairly quick process? I mean the prosecutor/state says, "Here's what we got, whattaya you think, is it worth charging this guy and maybe going to trial?"
Why has this already taken over a month and a half with no indictment or dismissal?
Grand Juries are tools used by prosecutors. They are not a process with much integrity, anymore.

If a prosecutor wants to bring an indictment, he can. "Facts" are pretty immaterial in a one-sided process. Of course, in the case of police shootings, it works the other direction.

Prosecutors and police have a collegial relationship, viewing each other as 'teammates'. In case you haven't noticed, to people on that particular team, all police shootings are always justified. When a prosecutor puts a police shooting case before a grand jury, the 'one sided' aspect of the Grand Jury that is used to indict anyone else is manipulated to favorably sway the jury away from an indictment.

As the old saying goes, "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich" works in the opposite in police shootings where a grand jury would fail to indict a cop who just shot a 3 year old because the prosecutor spent 2 weeks elaborately persuading them that he was just defending himself, and since the grand jury process only hears from the prosecutor and nobody else, they believe him. When the prosecutor is railroading you, me or our family in a grad jury hearing, it takes 3 hours.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
15,148 posts, read 15,198,298 times
Reputation: 10872
Don't they have alternates on a grand-jury???

If one person acts inappropriately.....an alternate, who has been attending the hearings, can fill that spot??????????????????????????????????
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 08:12 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 31,241,247 times
Reputation: 11427
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Don't they have alternates on a grand-jury???

If one person acts inappropriately.....an alternate, who has been attending the hearings, can fill that spot??????????????????????????????????
I wondered about that too.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Gardenville
759 posts, read 1,035,797 times
Reputation: 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
They have until January 7, 2015.

I think they just meet once a week.

Maybe if it is cold there will not be a big riot......or, celebration....however things work out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaba View Post
Grand Juries are tools used by prosecutors. They are not a process with much integrity, anymore.

If a prosecutor wants to bring an indictment, he can. "Facts" are pretty immaterial in a one-sided process. Of course, in the case of police shootings, it works the other direction.

Prosecutors and police have a collegial relationship, viewing each other as 'teammates'. In case you haven't noticed, to people on that particular team, all police shootings are always justified. When a prosecutor puts a police shooting case before a grand jury, the 'one sided' aspect of the Grand Jury that is used to indict anyone else is manipulated to favorably sway the jury away from an indictment.

As the old saying goes, "a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich" works in the opposite in police shootings where a grand jury would fail to indict a cop who just shot a 3 year old because the prosecutor spent 2 weeks elaborately persuading them that he was just defending himself, and since the grand jury process only hears from the prosecutor and nobody else, they believe him. When the prosecutor is railroading you, me or our family in a grad jury hearing, it takes 3 hours.
Perhaps you're both correct. Not being familiar with the political situation there in Ferguson, it didn't occur to me that this whole procedure may be a delay tactic to try to ride out the storm and hope the local Political bosses/Community Organizers (aka someday politicians) and (perhaps legitimately) enraged African-American population loses interest/experiences another outrage/adopts another cause/forgets or are distracted by something else.
Maybe I'm either still too round-eyed, or becoming just too jaded to think that this kind of influence could actually extend to a body as seemingly sacrosanct (not to mention dull and largely invisible to most of us) as a suburban county Grand Jury.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 08:30 PM
 
741 posts, read 681,192 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Don't they have alternates on a grand-jury???

If one person acts inappropriately.....an alternate, who has been attending the hearings, can fill that spot??????????????????????????????????
Its an 'uneducated population' problem.

Certain perverted/dysfunctional aspects of the justice system go totally unchallenged and never register enough interest to cause change because the justice system tends to grease itself with members of vulnerable populations whose voice goes unheard and inherently unlikable people (criminals who've done legitimately bad things).

Prosecutors have been using the one-sided Grand Jury process to facilitate no-bills for bad police shootings forever (remember, prosecutors and cops absolutely view themselves as players on the same team) but the public is too dumb and preoccupied to learn about something like how the Grand Jury works.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2014, 08:42 PM
 
741 posts, read 681,192 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.K. View Post
Maybe I'm either still too round-eyed, or becoming just too jaded to think that this kind of influence could actually extend to a body as seemingly sacrosanct (not to mention dull and largely invisible to most of us) as a suburban county Grand Jury.
If that wasn't sarcasm, then you're enormously naive.

The Grand Jury process is one sided. Its a prosecutor telling his side of the story to a group of people who will decide to indict or not indict, yet you are entitled to no defense in front of a grand jury, you're not entitled to 5th Amendment protections, the process is entirely at the pleasure of the prosecutor.

Its a Kangaroo Court. He could indict anyone for anything, or, conversely, if someone is a 'friend of the office' who has done something wronbg, he can initiate a GJ proceeding but use the one-sided nature of the narrative to preset facts so they will certainly decline to indict.

This is not meant to be offensive but the general public is about as clueless as you are about grand juries, so they think that a Grand Jury action is some great triumph of institutional justice. If people understood what a grand jury actually was and how it was ran, they'd demand they be done away with. Some municipalities have.

In short though, I could act as a prosecutor and have you indicted for a crime you had nothing to do with, Conversely, if I am a prosecutor and you are my friend who has done something wrong, I won't charge you by the powers vested in me and my office. Instead, I'll take it in front of the grand jury and present facts in such a way that they will most certainly no-bill who I don't want to prosecute just as reliably as they will true-bill anyone who I do want to prosecute, regardless of actual innocence or guilt.

Since the public doesn't understand what a sham it all is, they think the system has rendered a just verdict.

Americans now have the government they deserve.
This is the consequence of television.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Current Events
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top