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Old 12-13-2014, 05:32 AM
 
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
5,523 posts, read 5,129,383 times
Reputation: 4324

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Quote:
A medical examiner has ruled that the death of a 12-year-old Cleveland boy shot on Nov. 22 by a police officer was a homicide.
Quote:
A medical examiner's ruling of homicide does not necessarily mean that a crime occurred, according to Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensics expert and Chairperson of the Department of Sciences at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City.
"If somebody shoots somebody else, the medical examiner's going to call it a homicide. Now whether it's criminal, is a different story," Kobilinsky said.
Medical Examiner rules Tamir Rice's death a homicide - CBS News

Then it's a different story, since it sure appeared to be a criminal act.
Loehmann apparently told Rice 'three' times to raise his hands within that 2 second window of shooting him. Yeah, sure he did.

Loehmann's father said his son had no choice
"Loehmann has returned to work from administrative leave, but is not back on patrol."
Tim Loehmann, Cleveland officer who shot Tamir Rice, 12, had no choice, cop's dad says - CBS News

I hope both cops go down for this one.

 
Old 12-13-2014, 06:24 AM
 
621 posts, read 827,725 times
Reputation: 616
The video I saw is disturbing. The cop car pulls up and the cop gets out immediately. Within a couple of seconds of the cop exiting the car, the boy drops (presumably shot). If what I saw was the raw footage, this is appalling to say the least. I understand the police severely compounded this horrendous event to a heinous extent by arresting the sister as her brother lay there dying and by forcing the mom to chose between the daughter and son.

I hope in the very least this shooting serves as a catalyst to bring about lasting changes. Gunning down innocents, especially children, is not why we need policing.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 06:25 AM
 
5,659 posts, read 2,714,314 times
Reputation: 5135
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee View Post
Medical Examiner rules Tamir Rice's death a homicide - CBS News

Then it's a different story, since it sure appeared to be a criminal act.
Loehmann apparently told Rice 'three' times to raise his hands within that 2 second window of shooting him. Yeah, sure he did.

Loehmann's father said his son had no choice
"Loehmann has returned to work from administrative leave, but is not back on patrol."
Tim Loehmann, Cleveland officer who shot Tamir Rice, 12, had no choice, cop's dad says - CBS News

I hope both cops go down for this one.
Please don't say that.
You were not there to know if it was said or not.

Unless there is a video showing he didn't say it.
If so, I apologize.

No one likes to see a 12 year old meet death.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 06:33 AM
 
621 posts, read 827,725 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Please don't say that.
You were not there to know if it was said or not.

Unless there is a video showing be didn't say it.
If so, I apologize.
Check the video. It is impossible to utter any command repeatedly in the time it took the cop to get out of the car and the boy to be shot. Never mind that he appears to have not given the boy even the remotest chance of comprehending the commands, leave alone reacting to them before being killed.

I am willing to bet that without the surveillance video we would have been left wondering. But with that video, as long as it has not been doctored, what happened is horrifying. That child should not have been killed.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 06:53 AM
 
240 posts, read 206,055 times
Reputation: 1366
I watched the video too. It is horrifying. The driver is at fault, not the shooter. The driver should have stopped the cruiser a safe distance away from the possibly-armed kid. Instead, he drove too close, putting his partner is direct line of fire. At that point nobody knew if the gun was real. In the video, it appears that the kid made a move, but we'll never know the motive or reason. The passenger cop reacted the same way any of us would react. He defended himself against what he thought was an immediate threat to his life.

The driver, not the passenger, should be held responsible for not putting distance between the cops and the threat.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 07:00 AM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,406,264 times
Reputation: 11453
Quote:
Originally Posted by ks5692 View Post
I watched the video too. It is horrifying. The driver is at fault, not the shooter. The driver should have stopped the cruiser a safe distance away from the possibly-armed kid. Instead, he drove too close, putting his partner is direct line of fire. At that point nobody knew if the gun was real. In the video, it appears that the kid made a move, but we'll never know the motive or reason. The passenger cop reacted the same way any of us would react. He defended himself against what he thought was an immediate threat to his life.

The driver, not the passenger, should be held responsible for not putting distance between the cops and the threat.
I wondered about that.

I was surprised they did not call for back up and block off the whole area.......then deal with the person with a gun.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 07:06 AM
 
3,764 posts, read 3,505,017 times
Reputation: 8938
The kid should not have had a gun replica, should not have been aiming it at people. What were his parents thinking?

There is a huge problem with guns among Black youths, a huge number of shootings. Half the gun homicide perpetrators are black males. The cop obviously was lumping this kid in with the statistics.

A tragedy all around. A boy dead, a cop probably headed for jail or else there'll be riots and looting. And the family will make a million or two on interviews, a book deal, and settlements. And the potus will make one of his typical "if I had a son" comments to stir things up.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
3,242 posts, read 4,579,212 times
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How many people here have been involved in a lethal force situation?

Those seconds feel like hours of incredible stress.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 08:01 AM
 
Location: 23.7 million to 162 million miles North of Venus
5,523 posts, read 5,129,383 times
Reputation: 4324
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atalanta View Post
Please don't say that.
You were not there to know if it was said or not.

Unless there is a video showing he didn't say it.

If so, I apologize.

No one likes to see a 12 year old meet death.
No I wasn't there and the video had no sound, but the video does have a timer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by local2rtp View Post
Check the video. It is impossible to utter any command repeatedly in the time it took the cop to get out of the car and the boy to be shot. Never mind that he appears to have not given the boy even the remotest chance of comprehending the commands, leave alone reacting to them before being killed.

I am willing to bet that without the surveillance video we would have been left wondering. But with that video, as long as it has not been doctored, what happened is horrifying. That child should not have been killed.
Exactly. Loehmann was out of the car almost before it came to a complete stop (on the grass right next to the pavilion, not in the 'parking lot'). Within 1 1/2 to 2 seconds Rice had been shot.

The two cops had no idea that they were being filmed.
Atalanta, watch the video and look for the inconsistencies between what was stated by the cops and was was shown on the video.

The cops stated that they pulled into the parking lot. That they saw a few people sitting underneath a pavilion next to the center. That Loehmann saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw Rice pick up the gun and put it in his waistband. Loehmann then got out of the car and told Rice, three times, to put his hands up. Then Rice reached into his waistband and pulled out the (toy) gun and that's when Loehmann fired two shots.

With those lies, along with the extremely short amount of time, is why I disbelieve Loehmann when he stated that he told Rice to put his hands up 'three' times.
 
Old 12-13-2014, 08:15 AM
 
240 posts, read 206,055 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by berdee View Post
No I wasn't there and the video had no sound, but the video does have a timer.

Exactly. Loehmann was out of the car almost before it came to a complete stop (on the grass right next to the pavilion, not in the 'parking lot'). Within 1 1/2 to 2 seconds Rice had been shot.

The two cops had no idea that they were being filmed.
Atalanta, watch the video and look for the inconsistencies between what was stated by the cops and was was shown on the video.

The cops stated that they pulled into the parking lot. That they saw a few people sitting underneath a pavilion next to the center. That Loehmann saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw Rice pick up the gun and put it in his waistband. Loehmann then got out of the car and told Rice, three times, to put his hands up. Then Rice reached into his waistband and pulled out the (toy) gun and that's when Loehmann fired two shots.

With those lies, along with the extremely short amount of time, is why I disbelieve Loehmann when he stated that he told Rice to put his hands up 'three' times.
I believe Loehman was covering for the failure of the driver to stop a safe distance away from the "gunman". Covering for another cop is a lie he now regrets thanks to the video. Just my opinion though.
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