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There's only really been 3 athletes in human history who have "transcended" sports and became cultural icons:
1) Muhammed Ali
2) Michael Jordan
3) Tigger Woods
Of those three . . . . I would say Ali had the largest and longest impact on the world's culture. He was one of the greatest figures of the 20th century. Jordan was only hugely influential from about 1992 to 1999, and Tigger was big from around 1997 to 2006. Ali's impact was spread over decades.
Ali was prolly the most genuine, honest personality of those three because he spoke from the heart without a filter. Jordan and Tigger were victims of the Politically Correct Age and seem rather robotic and boring by comparison to the Great Ali.
When he dies, his funeral will be attended by Presidents and world leaders, plus all the world's biggest sports stars and movie stars. That's how big of an icon he was.
Yes, indeed, Ali was bigger than Jordan and Woods put together times 10. There is really no one else in his league.
We here in England always loved Muhammad Ali. He never lost his popularity even during the years he was banned from fighting. He was not perfect - his baiting of Joe Frazier went beyond promoting a fight. It was cruel, and uncalled for. But, as a fighter, he dodged nobody.
I had a job working nights when he fought George Foreman. We wouldn't know the result till the morning at the end of the shift. The general feeling was Foreman would catch up with a dancing Ali by mid fight, and knock him out, like he had done so many others. I climbed in my car to go home, and turned on the radio. It was announced Ali had won by knockout. I couldn't believe it, and punched the air with happiness.
Muhammad Ali was far, far, more than just a fighter. He was probably the most famous person in the world at that moment. His illness has got progressively worse in recent years. He has taken it like a man, without complaint. His many kind deeds over the years, some documented, some not, for me, make him a good man. I hope he is feeling better soon.
That parallels my experience almost exactly. For me, it was the next morning and I turned on the radio anxiously awaiting the news. I did the same thing you did and felt the same way.
Ali was vehemently opposed to poor black men being sent to die in a SE Asian jungle all because some old white men at the top of America's power structure wanted to get rich.
History has judged that Ali was right all along, and LBJ and Nixon were the real criminals.
I was one of those poor men (1/28th, First Infantry Division) But not black. And it had nothing to do with anyone getting rich.
What can I say about Ali? You love him and his ability to rub it in to the people who didn't have his physical gifts. You admire that; I don't. Maybe it's because I lack those gifts and you don't. Who knows? Whatever, I don't find Ali's enjoyment of himself something I ought to share. And his encouragement of the VC trying to kill me might have deprived the world of my grandchildren, whom I believe will be a positive force in the world...
You better watch Oliver Stone's film "JFK" at least once or twice .... LBJ and his cronies stood to make millions from escalating the Vietnam War. Just think of Cheney and Halliburton but 10 times worse.
Ali was cocky but could back it up. Those are the best kind of athletes. I don't watch sports for some robotic performance by guys "just putting in a day at the office". It's entertainment and amusement, and Ali provided both in spades.
Looking back on Ali's life, those years when he was stripped of his heavyweight title are paramount. It was a period in American history of great turmoil, and anger. I well remember as a schoolboy, reading of American 'Advisers' in Vietnam. In a very short time after that, it turned into a real war.
Young men were drafted, and went to serve their country. In those days, we, in England, and folks in the USA saw ourselves as the 'good guys.' If we went to war, it was for a good reason. We trusted our leaders, and didn't really question their motives.
I myself, listened to the talking heads on tv. The 'domino theory' was explained, so even a kid like me could understand. The communists were spreading their poison, and had to be stopped. So when folks were drafted, in the main, they went without complaint. Only people of iron will, and belief, would go against the tide, and say no........ this war is wrong, and we shouldn't be fighting it. In 1971, this stance was common. In 1967 it wasn't.
If Muhammad Ali had accepted the draft, he wouldn't have gone to Vietnam. I believe this was quietly explained to him. A similar situation to Joe Louis in the Second World War would have occurred. He would have been used as a moral booster, and poster boy. He still said no, and refused.
The next year, 1968, saw the murder of Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy. Ali, at this time, despised by much of the American public was in grave danger of being killed himself. He remained a public figure, and an easy target. He didn't hide himself away, and made many speeches at places like Universities.
The best years of his boxing career were lost. He had reached a peak in 1967, and on his return to boxing in 1970, he had lost much of his amazing skill, and speed. Even though only 28 years old, the inactivity had damaged him. The tide had turned in American public opinion, about both him, and the Vietnam War.
He had a couple of warm up fights, and then took on Joe Frazier. Joe was at his very peak in 1971, and really Ali should have had a few more fights before taking him on. But, he was eager to regain what meant so much to him, the Heavyweight crown. Joe beat him fair and square. Many thought this was the end for Ali..... they were wrong. Three years later he got another chance at the title, against another fearsome fighter in the Sonny Liston mode - George Foreman.
This was Ali at his best. His massive self belief, when most others thought he was over the hill, carried him through to victory. This was the very peak of his boxing career. The year after, he took Joe Frazier on once more. I always believed Ali feared Joe. Not enough to dodge fighting him, but instead, to try and humiliate him. The 'gorilla in Manila' theme is a black mark on the boxing history of Muhammad Ali. I believe in later years he regretted it, and the anger it generated in Joe for many years after.
The fight itself was one of the greatest ever. Those men left a little piece of themselves in Manila, and neither were really the same physically again. Both should have retired from boxing at that time. The guts and bravery on display that day has never been surpassed. Joe was secretly blind in one eye. Only his trainer Eddie Futch knew this. When Joe's good eye was shut, his trainer, knowing he was unable to see, refused to let his fighter go out for the last round. Frazier many years later, was asked if he would have gone out that last round, practically blind. He said yes. This goes beyond fighting for money. This is guts and glory. Ali knew Joe Frazier was a great fighter, and man, and gave him nothing but respect from that time on.
Ali fought on for six more years, and he should not have. Finally retiring in 1981. The decline in his health started shortly after that. The love for Muhammad has grown in those years, especially in England. When he lit the Olympic torch in Atlanta in 1996, I watched him struggle shakily to do this task. I cried for him, and for what he had been. At the same time admiring his guts to put himself on display in this way. No hiding himself away for Muhammad Ali.
He has been a great part of my life since sitting with my dad in the middle of the night watching his fights 'live' on a little black and white tv. As a young boy, I knew he was something special far beyond boxing. His decline has been a sad one, but now, as always, I say what a man! Best wishes for his recovery.
Looking back on Ali's life, those years when he was stripped of his heavyweight title are paramount. It was a period in American history of great turmoil, and anger. I well remember as a schoolboy, reading of American 'Advisers' in Vietnam. In a very short time after that, it turned into a real war.
Young men were drafted, and went to serve their country. In those days, we, in England, and folks in the USA saw ourselves as the 'good guys.' If we went to war, it was for a good reason. We trusted our leaders, and didn't really question their motives.
I myself, listened to the talking heads on tv. The 'domino theory' was explained, so even a kid like me could understand. The communists were spreading their poison, and had to be stopped. So when folks were drafted, in the main, they went without complaint. Only people of iron will, and belief, would go against the tide, and say no........ this war is wrong, and we shouldn't be fighting it. In 1971, this stance was common. In 1967 it wasn't.
If Muhammad Ali had accepted the draft, he wouldn't have gone to Vietnam. I believe this was quietly explained to him. A similar situation to Joe Louis in the Second World War would have occurred. He would have been used as a moral booster, and poster boy. He still said no, and refused.
The next year, 1968, saw the murder of Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy. Ali, at this time, despised by much of the American public was in grave danger of being killed himself. He remained a public figure, and an easy target. He didn't hide himself away, and made many speeches at places like Universities.
The best years of his boxing career were lost. He had reached a peak in 1967, and on his return to boxing in 1970, he had lost much of his amazing skill, and speed. Even though only 28 years old, the inactivity had damaged him. The tide had turned in American public opinion, about both him, and the Vietnam War.
He had a couple of warm up fights, and then took on Joe Frazier. Joe was at his very peak in 1971, and really Ali should have had a few more fights before taking him on. But, he was eager to regain what meant so much to him, the Heavyweight crown. Joe beat him fair and square. Many thought this was the end for Ali..... they were wrong. Three years later he got another chance at the title, against another fearsome fighter in the Sonny Liston mode - George Foreman.
This was Ali at his best. His massive self belief, when most others thought he was over the hill, carried him through to victory. This was the very peak of his boxing career. The year after, he took Joe Frazier on once more. I always believed Ali feared Joe. Not enough to dodge fighting him, but instead, to try and humiliate him. The 'gorilla in Manila' theme is a black mark on the boxing history of Muhammad Ali. I believe in later years he regretted it, and the anger it generated in Joe for many years after.
The fight itself was one of the greatest ever. Those men left a little piece of themselves in Manila, and neither were really the same physically again. Both should have retired from boxing at that time. The guts and bravery on display that day has never been surpassed. Joe was secretly blind in one eye. Only his trainer Eddie Futch knew this. When Joe's good eye was shut, his trainer, knowing he was unable to see, refused to let his fighter go out for the last round. Frazier many years later, was asked if he would have gone out that last round, practically blind. He said yes. This goes beyond fighting for money. This is guts and glory. Ali knew Joe Frazier was a great fighter, and man, and gave him nothing but respect from that time on.
Ali fought on for six more years, and he should not have. Finally retiring in 1981. The decline in his health started shortly after that. The love for Muhammad has grown in those years, especially in England. When he lit the Olympic torch in Atlanta in 1996, I watched him struggle shakily to do this task. I cried for him, and for what he had been. At the same time admiring his guts to put himself on display in this way. No hiding himself away for Muhammad Ali.
He has been a great part of my life since sitting with my dad in the middle of the night watching his fights 'live' on a little black and white tv. As a young boy, I knew he was something special far beyond boxing. His decline has been a sad one, but now, as always, I say what a man! Best wishes for his recovery.
Another good post, Dave, though I don't see all of this the way you do.
I don't think Frazier was anywhere near the fighter that Ali was, but he adopted a bizarre fighting posture that made him uniquely difficult for opponents to deal with. I hated to watch him fight and always felt that that hunched-over, head recessed behind relentlessly pumping punches style was a tactic that called into question whether it was even a fair fight. Ali's skills far overshadowed Frazier's.
Ali mocked all of his notable opponents. And, ok, if you're one of those guys on the receiving end I suppose it wasn't much fun. But I wouldn't go so far as to call any of his comments a "black mark" on his boxing history. And the main theme for the Manilla fight was the "Thrilla" in Manilla. Yes, he mocked Frazier with "gorilla", but he also mocked Sonny Liston calling him the "big ugly bear" and said "After I beat him I'm going to donate him to the zoo". Frazier wasn't singled out....the mocking was just part of his act and was part of his strategy. If anything, whatever anger it may have generated should have helped and motivated opponents, and it probably did. But they were nonetheless almost always outmatched in the ring by the skills, the speed, and the reach of Muhammad Ali.
Another good post, Dave, though I don't see all of this the way you do.
I don't think Frazier was anywhere near the fighter that Ali was, but he adopted a bizarre fighting posture that made him uniquely difficult for opponents to deal with. I hated to watch him fight and always felt that that hunched-over, head recessed behind relentlessly pumping punches style was a tactic that called into question whether it was even a fair fight. Ali's skills far overshadowed Frazier's.
Ali mocked all of his notable opponents. And, ok, if you're one of those guys on the receiving end I suppose it wasn't much fun. But I wouldn't go so far as to call any of his comments a "black mark" on his boxing history. And the main theme for the Manilla fight was the "Thrilla" in Manilla. Yes, he mocked Frazier with "gorilla", but he also mocked Sonny Liston calling him the "big ugly bear" and said "After I beat him I'm going to donate him to the zoo". Frazier wasn't singled out....the mocking was just part of his act and was part of his strategy. If anything, whatever anger it may have generated should have helped and motivated opponents, and it probably did. But they were nonetheless almost always outmatched in the ring by the skills, the speed, and the reach of Muhammad Ali.
I think Ali realized after his boxing career ended, certain fights, and fighters brought out the best in him. For instance he struggled against a fighter like Ken Norton, and his awkward style. Joe Frazier was made for Ali, and his fighting style gelled well with Frazier's. They were once called the Hope and Crosby of boxing......
Joe was upset because he had tried hard to help Mohammad get his boxing licence back, and even giving him money while Ali struggled financially during his boxing exile. In return, Ali turned on Joe, and spent the next few years insulting his looks and intelligence. This public abuse, caused problems for Joe's schoolboy son. I don't know how much Ali was aware of this.
Nowadays, mention Mohammad Ali, the name of Joe Frazier is never far behind. Ali said after the last fight, "Joe Frazier, I'll tell the world right now, brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and god bless him. He is the greatest fighter of all times...... next to me."
I feel Muhammad Ali is coming to the end of his physical struggle. He was a brave fighter, and is a good man. God bless him, and all those other brave men who climbed in a boxing ring. Especially the ones like Mohammad and Joe who never knew when to quit...... real warriors.
I think Ali realized after his boxing career ended, certain fights, and fighters brought out the best in him. For instance he struggled against a fighter like Ken Norton, and his awkward style. Joe Frazier was made for Ali, and his fighting style gelled well with Frazier's. They were once called the Hope and Crosby of boxing......
Joe was upset because he had tried hard to help Mohammad get his boxing licence back, and even giving him money while Ali struggled financially during his boxing exile. In return, Ali turned on Joe, and spent the next few years insulting his looks and intelligence. This public abuse, caused problems for Joe's schoolboy son. I don't know how much Ali was aware of this.
Nowadays, mention Mohammad Ali, the name of Joe Frazier is never far behind. Ali said after the last fight, "Joe Frazier, I'll tell the world right now, brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and god bless him. He is the greatest fighter of all times...... next to me."
I feel Muhammad Ali is coming to the end of his physical struggle. He was a brave fighter, and is a good man. God bless him, and all those other brave men who climbed in a boxing ring. Especially the ones like Mohammad and Joe who never knew when to quit...... real warriors.
Yes, I had heard but forgotten that part of the story and, of course, you make a good point. Thank you.
Still, Ali's style almost always made you laugh, made you feel good. He was sometimes brutally honest, but in a world sorely lacking honesty, it was sometimes a breath of fresh air.
Most people wouldn't be cheered for "He is the greatest fighter of all times...... next to me". But Ali was, because everyone knew it was true.
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