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Old 12-27-2014, 04:45 AM
 
456 posts, read 632,126 times
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I think we can all agree that both Libya and Iraq have been disasters ever since their respective leaders were ousted with Western support.

1) Libya is in a state of civil war, no stable government, Islamic State controlling part of the country, and other jihadist groups holding sanctuaries in parts of the country. Libya has become another Somalia, but even more dangerous. Oil money can now flow into the hands of such Islamists and potential terrorists.

2) Iraq has been suffering from sectarian strife and its army quickly fell apart as Islamic State fighters pounced on the vulnerability of the country.

Now, if Assad is to fall, the same thing would happen to Syria. The "Syrian Moderates" or FSA are ridiculously weak and would be overrun by the Islamic State and other Islamic Groups in a day. Best case scenario the FSA would control a few government buildings in Damascus and that's it. Syria would become another Libya or Somalia, hence giving more territory and safe havens to terrorists like that of the Islamic State. This would be very dangerous for the Western World.

The fact that Assad is Alawite (technically not Shia or Sunni), has a secular agenda, and is a strongman, is what Syria needs to stay together and not descend into another Libya. It is laughable that some people in the West thinks that FSA, sitting in Istanbul, would be capable of bringing stability to Syria.

What all civilized countries and people in the West need to do is support Assad - he is the only way that Syria will not become another jihadist hub. Assad will continue a secular society with respect towards all minorities, especially Christians and other Alawites.
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:36 AM
 
4,250 posts, read 3,325,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antequera View Post
I think we can all agree that both Libya and Iraq have been disasters ever since their respective leaders were ousted with Western support.

1) Libya is in a state of civil war, no stable government, Islamic State controlling part of the country, and other jihadist groups holding sanctuaries in parts of the country. Libya has become another Somalia, but even more dangerous. Oil money can now flow into the hands of such Islamists and potential terrorists.

2) Iraq has been suffering from sectarian strife and its army quickly fell apart as Islamic State fighters pounced on the vulnerability of the country.

Now, if Assad is to fall, the same thing would happen to Syria. The "Syrian Moderates" or FSA are ridiculously weak and would be overrun by the Islamic State and other Islamic Groups in a day. Best case scenario the FSA would control a few government buildings in Damascus and that's it. Syria would become another Libya or Somalia, hence giving more territory and safe havens to terrorists like that of the Islamic State. This would be very dangerous for the Western World.

The fact that Assad is Alawite (technically not Shia or Sunni), has a secular agenda, and is a strongman, is what Syria needs to stay together and not descend into another Libya. It is laughable that some people in the West thinks that FSA, sitting in Istanbul, would be capable of bringing stability to Syria.

What all civilized countries and people in the West need to do is support Assad - he is the only way that Syria will not become another jihadist hub. Assad will continue a secular society with respect towards all minorities, especially Christians and other Alawites.
This is what I have been saying all along. The whiny liberals in the US, especially in academia and in the media, are always painting these "dictators" as evil. They are advocating for freedom, democracy and other intangibles when these countries actually need stability, peace and focused development that only strong political rule can provide. The mistakes in Libya and elsewhere are casually ignored because these idiots actually do not care about the welfare of the people in these countries...they only want things to go their way to simply validate their own political agenda and views. Now we wonder why more and more people around the world are disenchanted with the American agenda?

Leave Assad alone and let him regain control of his own country. If you really want to help the Syrian people, and keep ISIL at bay, then help him bring stability and then economic development to his people, not feeding incessant civil wars.
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Old 12-27-2014, 05:43 AM
 
456 posts, read 632,126 times
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
This is what I have been saying all along. The whiny liberals in the US, especially in academia and in the media, are always painting these "dictators" as evil. They are advocating for freedom, democracy and other intangibles when these countries actually need stability, peace and focused development that only strong political rule can provide. The mistakes in Libya and elsewhere are casually ignored because these idiots actually do not care about the welfare of the people in these countries...they only want things to go their way to simply validate their own political agenda and views. Now we wonder why more and more people around the world are disenchanted with the American agenda?

Leave Assad alone and let him regain control of his own country. If you really want to help the Syrian people, and keep ISIL at bay, then help him bring stability and then economic development to his people, not feeding incessant civil wars.
Yes I agree. If you put "democracy" in Syria right now, which is supposedly the FSA, the result would be another lawless Somalia. Though honestly, I doubt the FSA would bring about a democratic and free Syrian State, they'd just be Sunni autocrats pandering to Islamist factions, Gulf States, and the West, and wouldn't be surprised if they are more authoritarian than Assad.

Assad is BY FAR the best solution to Syria. He has a predictable and known policy and his rule gave Syria stability for many years.

There is a telling video, in which Assad is walking around a torn neighborhood for Easter, he is visiting the local Church for the occasion, and he starts picking up some iconas of Jesus that are broken and on the ground. He picks those icons up with his bare hands. Tell me, would any other leader of a Muslim country do that? You imagine President of Turkey doing that??

--
Here Assad is visiting a war-torn church during Easter:




God Bless this Man.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:49 AM
 
15,077 posts, read 8,604,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
This is what I have been saying all along. The whiny liberals in the US, especially in academia and in the media, are always painting these "dictators" as evil. They are advocating for freedom, democracy and other intangibles when these countries actually need stability, peace and focused development that only strong political rule can provide. The mistakes in Libya and elsewhere are casually ignored because these idiots actually do not care about the welfare of the people in these countries...they only want things to go their way to simply validate their own political agenda and views. Now we wonder why more and more people around the world are disenchanted with the American agenda?

Leave Assad alone and let him regain control of his own country. If you really want to help the Syrian people, and keep ISIL at bay, then help him bring stability and then economic development to his people, not feeding incessant civil wars.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't quite think it was whiny liberals that were advocating the invasion of Iraq in 2003 based on false and misguided pretenses.
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Old 12-28-2014, 07:32 AM
 
4,250 posts, read 3,325,992 times
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Originally Posted by iHez View Post
So the worst dictator in the history of the middle east is the solution ? and God bless him !
a dictator who killed more than 250.000 and injured hundreds of thousands and forced 3 millions to run out the country AND destroyed most of Syria is the solution !!

I pray that you get a copy of him to rule your country... Amen.

That's just a luny proaganda spewing yet again from misguided hatred. No one is saying Assad is an angel, because no politician or leader can ever be. They make hard decisions because that is the nature of their job. To dump all those death figures on his head is just foolish when everyone with any common sense know that it take one person to make a civil war. If there was no uprising, would there have been all these deaths? Turn the table around and there are plenty of atrocities committed by the so called "freedom fighters". Worse, if these freedom fighters win, there will be even more atrocities committed in the name of Allah and Islamist extremism. All you need to do is to see those wonderful beheading videos to know what's in store for Iraq, Syria and the whole region if these primitive lunatics win. So much for your freedom and democracy because I have never ever heard of or seen an Islamist organization being "democratic" or "free". Come on, folks!
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Old 12-28-2014, 07:36 AM
 
4,250 posts, read 3,325,992 times
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Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't quite think it was whiny liberals that were advocating the invasion of Iraq in 2003 based on false and misguided pretenses.
Oh yes they did, and they played nicely into the manipulative hands of those right wingnuts who were drooling over Iraq's oilfields. Of course, things did not work out for these right wingnuts and their corporate sponsors either. In the end, the US squandered billions and left with its tail between its legs, the Iraqi's were handed a failed and completely ruined nation, and the extremists were given a golden opportunity to work their magic. Happy now?
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:15 PM
 
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It was whiny liberals who had the US leave Iraq and Afghanistan before the job was done so now the US is back in Iraq with a worse situation than when it left and Afghanistan will soon be in the same situation.
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Old 12-28-2014, 12:24 PM
 
456 posts, read 632,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iHez View Post
So the worst dictator in the history of the middle east is the solution ? and God bless him !
a dictator who killed more than 250.000 and injured hundreds of thousands and forced 3 millions to run out the country AND destroyed most of Syria is the solution !!

I pray that you get a copy of him to rule your country... Amen.
Worst dictator in the middle east? Seriously? And it's not Assad that destroyed most of the country, but the foreign funded jihadists and terrorists that have infiltrated the country and wrought havoc on the State.

What solution do you seriously have? You want to create another safe haven for Islamic Terrorists like there is in Libya.

Naive people must get over the fact that it is not possible in places like Iraq and Syria to have a Western Style, Parliamentary Democracy and somehow that bring about peace and stability. The model may work for Iceland or Norway, but not places like Iraq and Syria. Assad is by far the best solution to Syria, anything else will turn Syria into a jihad hot-bed.
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Old 12-28-2014, 03:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
It was whiny liberals who had the US leave Iraq and Afghanistan before the job was done so now the US is back in Iraq with a worse situation than when it left and Afghanistan will soon be in the same situation.
Dont misunderstand me. I think both whiny liberals and neocon rightwingnuts are both to blame. They are both misguided and driven by selfish motives, and they have hijacked the power of the American state to achieve their won domestic and international ends. Of course, who pays for their actions but the poor people of the places they have shown interest in.
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Old 12-28-2014, 11:12 PM
 
456 posts, read 632,126 times
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Dont misunderstand me. I think both whiny liberals and neocon rightwingnuts are both to blame. They are both misguided and driven by selfish motives, and they have hijacked the power of the American state to achieve their won domestic and international ends. Of course, who pays for their actions but the poor people of the places they have shown interest in.
I agree. Both whiny liberals and neocon warnuts have destroyed US foreign policy. I think US policy on Syria has been heavily misguided and it is to blame for the current situation right now with all the jihadists that have taken control.
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