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Old 12-31-2014, 10:36 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,946 posts, read 2,825,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
weren't you saying it's just a lapse of judgement? I may have you confused with another poster then. I'm sorry about that then.
Yes I said it was a lapse in judgement. So was Tamir. Both were at fault. Both paid the price. My stance is that this woman wasn't an idiot dragging society down like some portray her. She did, however, make one fatal error, and it is the one that 99.999% of America got to know her because of.

How could this NOT!? be the mother's fault?


But this one thing does not make her stupid/worthless/etc. Much like I don't know how useless or stupid or smart and useful Tamir was or wasn't.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:02 PM
 
Location: usa
1,001 posts, read 866,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Yes I said it was a lapse in judgement. So was Tamir. Both were at fault. Both paid the price. My stance is that this woman wasn't an idiot dragging society down like some portray her. She did, however, make one fatal error, and it is the one that 99.999% of America got to know her because of.

How could this NOT!? be the mother's fault?


But this one thing does not make her stupid/worthless/etc. Much like I don't know how useless or stupid or smart and useful Tamir was or wasn't.
if that one has an item that has the potential to be fatal, you shouldn't be having "lapses of judgement" when it comes to it. Maybe it's because I don't own a gun, but I can't see how having such a lackadaisical attitude in regards to that gun can be seen as anything other than moronic. It's a gun, it can kill people. I don't care if you have a pHd in rocket science and have 54 billion dollars, you are still a moron who deserved your death if you just leave a gun (something whose sole purpose it to injure/kill) laying around so a 2 year old can find and play with it. It has nothing to do with luck. You don't go around taking unnecessary chances when it comes to things like cars, guns, knifes, etc. If you do go around taking chances like that, no I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry that it didn't work out for you.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:06 PM
 
2,620 posts, read 2,525,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
So, according to you, this woman keeping a gun within reach of a child is an unfortunate lapse of judgement ? What does it take for someone to be at fault in your book? If the child shot at another person, would that also be an ok event in your book?

So do you feel sorry for people who get DUIs or who text and drive and end up killing some other person? That's who you feel sorry for?

uh, if the boy burned his mom down, ya that would be deserved. The toddler has no idea what he is doing, thus isn't at fault. It would be somewhat sad if he burned himself. He didn't do anything wrong, so he shouldn't be injured. If he managed to burn his mom? No, still no sympathy. Don't keep matches near a toddler. Why is it so hard for people to keep dangerous items away from children?

Yes, I'm in college. I'd like to point out that "Murphy's law" isn't actually real. It's a saying. Sure people have lapses in judgement. That's why if it's something that can be potentially fatal, you double check yourself. I reserve my sympathies for things that people can't control. I.e the victim of some drunk guy driving a car and crashing into them.

I don't feel warm and fuzzy about her death, but I'm not particularly sad about it. It's how this world works, you do dumb things, you pay the consequences. Why should I feel sad about it?

Just out of curiosity, do you think tamar rice is responsible for his own death? (the 12 year old who was pretend shooting at people with a fake gun, some lady called the cops, and the cops shot and killed the boy after he allegedly was trying to get to the fake gun when the cops told him to raise his hands).

also, since you are conservative, you are likely against abortion. How about some 15 year olds have a "lapse of judgement" and have sex and that results in a child. What do you suggest then? Marriage and raising the child because of a "lapse of judgement"?
Well said.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,077 posts, read 14,025,351 times
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This story is very sad.

If you CCW put your firearm in good holster that covers the trigger guard and if you have kids around get one with a safety at least and use it.

It brought to mind the post from last year where the new CCW holder shot himself why reaching to pay in Home Depot in FL.

Just as dangerous is a high quality spring assisted Benchmade with no sheath in a purse around small kids.

Last edited by Teckeeee; 12-31-2014 at 11:33 PM..
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:17 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,946 posts, read 2,825,796 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
if that one has an item that has the potential to be fatal, you shouldn't be having "lapses of judgement" when it comes to it. NO, you shouldn't. Maybe it's because I don't own a gun, but I can't see how having such a lackadaisical attitude in regards to that gun can be seen as anything other than moronic. Agreed. It's a gun, it can kill people. Yep, but not by itself of course. I don't care if you have a pHd in rocket science and have 54 billion dollars, you are still a moron who deserved your death if you just leave a gun (something whose sole purpose it to injure/kill Not really. Did you somehow miss the videos of me having a helluva good time at the range injuring and killing nothing?) laying around so a 2 year old can find and play with it. It has nothing to do with luck. No, had the 2 year old NOT done so, it would have been lucky. Bad events are rarely luck, but good events which could have been bad were not for fate, I ascribe to luck. You don't go around taking unnecessary chances when it comes to things like cars, guns, knifes, etc. If you do go around taking chances like that, no I'm not going to feel the least bit sorry that it didn't work out for you.
I don't think anyone is saying "Oh poor woman, let's feel sorry for her", but rather "She paid her money and made her choice, RIP, let's move on." Then some are all "I'm glad she's dead", which is nutty and stupid. It would be like me being glad you got raped because we had an anti-gun conversation and you didn't think you needed one. That would be idiotic and symptomatic of some personal issues, don't you think?
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:21 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,946 posts, read 2,825,796 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckeeee View Post
This story is very sad.

If you CCW put your firearm in good holster that covers the trigger guard and if you have kids around get one with a safety at least and use it.

It brought to mind the post from last year where the new CCW holder shot himself why reaching to pay in Home Depot in FL.

Just as dangerous is a high quality spring assisted Benchmade in a purse with no sheath in a purse around small kids.
I don't think a safety is much deterrent to children. They like to fiddle, and they will fiddle it "off".

My parents dealt with me from an early age regarding firearms. I was taught which end the bullet came out of, what made that happen, and shown the results of the bullet coming out of that end on things like cans, soda bottles, wood, dirt berm, etc.

From the age I literally can form a memory, I know where my father kept his firearms. I never once messed with them without his supervision. I was educated and taught well, and I was a good, smart, obedient child.


I think education of children is where safety starts, although your suggestion for said holster is spot-on! Things can snag in trigger guards, etc.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:22 PM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,946 posts, read 2,825,796 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post

also, since you are conservative, you are likely against abortion. How about some 15 year olds have a "lapse of judgement" and have sex and that results in a child. What do you suggest then? Marriage and raising the child because of a "lapse of judgement"?
I saw your quick-edit, there...

No, I'm mostly pro-choice. I don't think abortion = condom, though. It's not "Oh, we don't need a condom/pill/etc. we can get an abortion!".
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:27 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,163 posts, read 11,636,175 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by stellastar2345 View Post
So, according to you, this woman keeping a gun within reach of a child is an unfortunate lapse of judgement ? What does it take for someone to be at fault in your book? If the child shot at another person, would that also be an ok event in your book?

So do you feel sorry for people who get DUIs or who text and drive and end up killing some other person? That's who you feel sorry for?

uh, if the boy burned his mom down, ya that would be deserved. The toddler has no idea what he is doing, thus isn't at fault. It would be somewhat sad if he burned himself. He didn't do anything wrong, so he shouldn't be injured. If he managed to burn his mom? No, still no sympathy. Don't keep matches near a toddler. Why is it so hard for people to keep dangerous items away from children?

Yes, I'm in college. I'd like to point out that "Murphy's law" isn't actually real. It's a saying. Sure people have lapses in judgement. That's why if it's something that can be potentially fatal, you double check yourself. I reserve my sympathies for things that people can't control. I.e the victim of some drunk guy driving a car and crashing into them.

I don't feel warm and fuzzy about her death, but I'm not particularly sad about it. It's how this world works, you do dumb things, you pay the consequences. Why should I feel sad about it?

Just out of curiosity, do you think tamar rice is responsible for his own death? (the 12 year old who was pretend shooting at people with a fake gun, some lady called the cops, and the cops shot and killed the boy after he allegedly was trying to get to the fake gun when the cops told him to raise his hands).

also, since you are conservative, you are likely against abortion. How about some 15 year olds have a "lapse of judgement" and have sex and that results in a child. What do you suggest then? Marriage and raising the child because of a "lapse of judgement"?
Umm..ooook ..I didn't exonerate this woman of any culpability. Any more than I would the worker who didn't lock his machine or a drunk driver. But it happens. All the time, an otherwise very smart person taking something for granted, with bad consequences. Don't EVEN bring the abortion thing up with me. Its an issue I loathe, and prefer to keep my feelings about to myself.

The "way the world is" is no enigma to me. I've seen a damn site more of it than most. AS TO "feeling sorry" for anyone, there a difference twixt that and feeling sorry ABOUT what happens as a consequence of individual actions. Oh, I used to take the same bard nosed stance you espouse here. But, somewhere along the line I went and started giving a $h17.

The aftermath of the attack on my lady has brought some things into play that can't be ignored. Many of her feelings and emotions about it are so contrary to what one would think they would be, and I've come to understand some things about death and violence that even armed combat couldn't teach me. I just don't see things the same way I used to. One realizes that incidents, like the one being discussed, can touch YOUR life as easy as not. Let me assure you, in regards to Murphy, he's quite real.

I would advise against being to...frothy..in condemnations. The World has the ability to make one choke on such things.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:27 PM
 
Location: usa
1,001 posts, read 866,372 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post

I don't think anyone said "It was okay", but what was said is that noone is 100% perfect 100% of the time. Most of us are just lucky those times, but this woman wasn't.
Maybe try to be a responsible gun owner instead of taking unnecessary chances? What about this is so hard to understand? Since you are already thinking about future scenarios, maybe think of this one as well and think hmm. baby can reach into there and take the gun, maybe I should but it in a babyproof case or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post

DUI is criminal intent, and laws are broken, same for texting and driving in many states. This is more equivalent to bending down to get a CD that you dropped.
Once again, when you are around things that can potentially get fatal, it should be ingrained in you to be extra cautious. I'm going to say you're already more paranoid than most when you get a gun to protect yourself, shouldn't you be a bit more proactive too? Hmm, do I really need this CD, or should I wait til I'm secure and parked to get it. I'm driving this heavy car that can kill me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
Let us know in 10 years how nothing you ever did in poor judgement ever had consequences.
Sure, I'm sure I'll do things in poor judgement (hopefully not around anything that can kill me or others, but I'm always more cautious in those situations), and I'll probably face the consequences. I won't be looking for sympathy or say things like "it's a lapse of judgement" to try and lessen the blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post

Well, unless you knew her, it would be a bit much to TRULY feel sad about it, but I wish it hadn't happened, if only for the sake of the motherless child and the loss of productivity to the work force, etc. She was "one of us" who actually had a job and worked for a living and contributed to the system instead of a leach.
there's plenty to take her place (and I'm willing to bet more cautious). She's in a field where you have to be cautious or else you'll blow something up, so I'm betting if this gun "lapse" didn't do her in, something similar would have. You can't be carefree and work with nuclear energy.
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Old 12-31-2014, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 5,077,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
So does the fact that I have to wait months and months and pay hundreds of dollars to own some of the things I have, but that's the facts.

When the founding fathers created that document, most people were proficient with and understood firearms.

That said, I am not a fan AT ALL of "requiring" anything to own a firearm (except for criminals with violent convictions, etc.). However, I think it sure would be nice if people used common sense and got some sort of education and training before arming themselves.

-They would be safer
-They would be more apt to successfully hit their target should they need to fire on someone/something
-They would be more likely to USE their firearm when warranted, and not when unwarranted.

For me, a CWP course was just the beginning of the training I went and sought. If I am going to arm myself, I think that military/police standards are the bare minimum to shoot for, and consider them "I'm not a hazard to others or myself" material, not indicative of actually being proficient in the least. I would feel more comfortable if others did the same, but again, America is a country that is willing to give up some safety in favor of freedom, and I am okay with that trade-off. "It is better for 100 guilty to walk free than 1 innocent to be imprisoned" somewhat applies, here.
I am going to disagree with the assumption that most colonial Americans understood or were proficient with guns. This was the 18th century and the advent of industrially mass produced guns with high quality and standardized interchangeable parts would not dawn until the next century. There weren't that many guns around in1700. The Founding Fathers were long dead when Mr Colt introduced his cheap mass produced gun with interchangeable parts! It wasn't until things like this that the common folk could even afford a gun. Guns were made by craftsman and were often one off things of high expense and only the elite could own them and one must remember the elite was small in number when compared to the masses who largely worked their lands or in the case of the nobility protected them.

Guns in colonial America where largely the property of the elites who owned the estates and plantations (For example, Mount Vernon (George Washington's Plantation near Washington DC), were in the hands of his Majesties armed forces (Royal Navy, Army and Marines, or Royal chartered colonial militias) or held in community armories under control of the authorities. You can see a good example of this in Colonial Williamsburg where the communities guns were kept under lock and key by the Colonial Royal Governor in an armory on the town's Common. To obtain and use a gun one needed the permission of the Royal Governor!

One of the incidents that helped spark the American Revolution was the 1775 act of the Virginia Royal Governor to remove the guns of Williamsburg from the armory and place them under Royal Navy Control on a Royal Navy Frigate based on the James River nearby. The Royal Governor did not trust the good citizens of Virginia and didn't want an armed rebellion in his colony! Memory of this incident probably underlies why the 2nd Amendment was included in the US Bill of Rights.
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