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Old 01-02-2015, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 278,697 times
Reputation: 217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
..

Switzerland has a current approx population of 8.1 million people.

Approx 24.899% of the population are "foreigners" who are permanent residents and citizens .
Another 1 to 2 % are "foreigners" who are not permanent residents and are not citizens.

So approx 1 out of every 4 residents are not "Swiss".

EDIT:.....Sorry "WestCoastNavy", I evidently was typing my post immediately after you sent yours and did not know "your's was on the way".

No worries
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:54 PM
 
19,766 posts, read 11,024,670 times
Reputation: 19790
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Thank you for explaining this. I got this far wondering how the toddler was able to fire the gun. I know nothing about guns. So It would appear that the mistake was made on the mother's part by not keeping her purse with her and away from her child.

It makes me wonder how much the mother knew about guns and if she didn't know that this was possible why didn't she. Could this tragic accident have been much worse I wonder? What if the child had been able to shoot more people before the gun could be taken away? I am so sorry for the death of the mother but I shudder to think how else this could have played out due to her ignorance about her firearm.

Maybe this will be a lesson to people to take their firearm ownership more seriously.
As I mentioned before, in this case it wasn't unfamiliarity with the firearm, but with the purse (which was a component of her self-defense system). She hadn't yet gained enough familiarity with her new "gun retention system" to be safe with it in an actual operational situation.

IOW, she forgot it was now a "gun retention system" and treated it the same way she had been accustomed to treating her purse. She had not yet developed the muscle memory to keep it on her at all times.

Before taking it out, she should have spent hours around the house with the purse on her shoulder, hours practicing removing the gun quickly, et cetera, until not having the weight of it on her shoulder would immediately feel wrong and naked. It's the same thing we would do with a belt holster.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:01 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
77,898 posts, read 69,860,626 times
Reputation: 75667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
What is the penalty for turning your child into a fat diabetic? Or a racist? Or a religious home schooled nut case who hates everyone else (I.E westboro baptist church)? Or how many refuse to give their kid vaccines? Or dont watch as their kid drinks anti freeze??

People are stupid all over. Its not about pointing the finger and saying that is too dangerous. so take it away. If that was the case no one would have a pool, bathtub, gun, car, stairs, swings slides or holding children.

People say guns are dangerous. I think people are dangerous. Especially the dumb ones.

In terms of safety here are a few statistics.

Nontransport accidents (W00-X59,Y86)
Under 1 year:1,067
1-4 years:933
5-14 years:667

Falls (W00-W19)
Under 1 year:11
1-4 years:24
5-14 years:28

Accidental discharge of firearms (W32-W34)
Under 1 year:4
1-4 years:25
5-14 years:45

Accidental drowning and submersion (W65-W74)
under 1 year: 52
1-4 years:438
5-14 years:235

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_03.pdf



I see 70 stupid people (not counting spouses) with kids and guns but I also see 725 stupid people (not counting spouses) with pools or bathtubs.


for Americans of all ages, mortality rates
CDC total deaths
Heart disease
Deaths per 100,000 population:191

Malignant neoplasms
Deaths per 100,000 population:185.1

Chronic lower respiratory diseases
Deaths per 100,000 population:45.9

Cerebrovascular diseases
Deaths per 100,000 population:41.4

Accidents
Deaths per 100,000 population:40.6

Diabetes mellitus
Deaths per 100,000 population:23.7

Influenza and pneumonia
Deaths per 100,000 population:17.3

poisoning
Deaths per 100,000 population: 14.8

suicide
Deaths per 100,000 population:12.7


Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.8

All firearm deaths
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.4

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr63/nvsr63_03.pdf
Was there anything in my post you quoted about taking guns away? No.

Down, boy.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:02 PM
 
2,620 posts, read 2,507,427 times
Reputation: 7207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
What is the penalty for turning your child into a fat diabetic? Or a racist? Or a religious home schooled nut case who hates everyone else (I.E westboro baptist church)? Or how many refuse to give their kid vaccines? Or dont watch as their kid drinks anti freeze??
Well, to be fair, CPS spends a lot of time taking kids away and prosecuting parents for things that have nothing to do with guns. It's typically a question of negligence. Did the kid drown in the pool while mom was doing laundry or passed out drunk in bed? Where the line is drawn is the million dollar question in every death of this type. I don't think parents should be given an automatic sentence because a gun was involved. But I also don't think they should be granted automatic immunity either.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,292 posts, read 3,325,335 times
Reputation: 4803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoastnavy View Post
Loribee62, where do you live?
I ask, because in some of the places I have lived I carried everyday. In other places I have lived, my guns never left my safe.
It is all relative.
I mean, at the end of the day as Americas were all most likely to eat ourselves to death as heart disease is the number one killer, but I always carry a condom just in case. Just because I may end up dying from heart diseas, doesnt mean I wont bring a rubber when im dating. Sure, HIV or syphilis are a much lower risk of death than heart disease, but that doesn't mean i shouldn't be prepared anyway.
Guns are much the same to me.
I do not bring condoms when i go to see my doctor (he isnt my preferred type OR gender), and I did not carry a gun when I was stationed in whidbey island washington. There was simply no reason to (i did however always have a rubber just in case). But when I lived and worked in Oakland California or when the VA sends me to the hospital in Vallejo California, I always carry.
Because those are the places I feel I might need a gun.
I also always keep a loaded shotgun in my house because where I live, home invasions are a new trend. I didnt keep it loaded 10 years ago, but I do now.
Again, it is all relative. Some people carry but do might not need to, some probably do need too.
Absolutes mean Absolutely nothing.
.......Very intelligent post......I agree with your thought process and logic.

I have lived with guns 73 years of my almost 83 years on this earth. I worked for almost 40 years that required I occassionaly travel through and/or be in certain areas that, "it made sense to have a hand-gun on my person". On three occasions in those 40 years, when it became appearent that I was armed.........the "threat" went-away!

To this day, when I think that I will be subjecting myself to dangerous and/or unsafe surroundings, I "Carry". And due to circumstances that relate to where I live, I sleep with a suitably equipped handgun on the night-stand right next to my bed......fully loaded and cocked.--------When seconds count, the Police are (in my case) 10 to 20 minutes away)!........Having NO immediate neighbors and not being able to see another building or (house) certainly has it's advantages (wildlife, 100yd range and fishing in the creek), but immediate assistance when needed is another story-----you provide your own------35 years and counting
The Hayden, ID incident is indeed VERY tragic...................but IMHO it certainly was preventible.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:20 PM
 
460 posts, read 690,825 times
Reputation: 1212
Well you all know how fearful and dangerous it is to go shopping at the local Wal-mart. It's such a ferociously dangerous world in Idaho. You never know when you're going to be reaching for those Clorox Wipes when a bear tromps down aisle 22 and you need to grab your Glock.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:26 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
77,898 posts, read 69,860,626 times
Reputation: 75667
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepman91919 View Post
Well you all know how fearful and dangerous it is to go shopping at the local Wal-mart. It's such a ferociously dangerous world in Idaho. You never know when you're going to be reaching for those Clorox Wipes when a bear tromps down aisle 22 and you need to grab your Glock.
She was trying out the new gun-purse her hubs got her for Xmas. If he hadn't given her the purse, the accident wouldn't have happened. As far as we know, she didn't normally take a loaded gun with her into stores.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 278,697 times
Reputation: 217
I am confused. It sounds like your trying to turn gun violence into a race issue?
If that is so, why start with immigration? That simply makes no sense.

How did you get from this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriBee62 View Post
The thing about Switzerland though is, everyone's Swiss. It's easier to get along and not be so fearful of each other when everyone looks and acts alike and you operate under a generally monolithic culture.
(Which we have proven is far from the truth)

To this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriBee62 View Post
Switch those statistics over to race and national origin.
The reason I ask, is even if you compare gun homicide from a racial perspective the CDC rates each group as follows
In 2010, the rate of firearm homicide for
blacks was 14.6 per 100,000
white-non/Hispanic, 1.9 per 100,000
American Indians and Alaska Natives 2.7 per 100,000
Asians and Pacific Islanders 1.0 per 100,000
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
These are approx figures. Calculated out with most possible benefit to LoriBee62's argument.

US census bureau
316,128,839 total population
Non AA* =87% Approx. 275032089/100,000 = 2750 so 2750*1.9= 5225 total gun related homicides
AA*=13% Approx. 41096749 /100,000=410 so 410*14.6= 6000 total gun related homicides
*=African American

OR you can simply do it this way:
US census bureau
316,128,839 total population
316,128,839/100,000 = 3161 so 3161*1.9= 6006 total gun related homicides

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Even with these numbers, HEAVILY skewed in your favor and by not comparing immigration crimes rates vs national crimes rates in Switzerland, the US still has a higher crime rate per capita than Switzerland.

Still want to blame demographics instead of appraising the value of the Swiss system? :P
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:38 PM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,185,287 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
.......Very intelligent post......I agree with your thought process and logic.

I have lived with guns 73 years of my almost 83 years on this earth. I worked for almost 40 years that required I occassionaly travel through and/or be in certain areas that, "it made sense to have a hand-gun on my person". On three occasions in those 40 years, when it became appearent that I was armed.........the "threat" went-away!

To this day, when I think that I will be subjecting myself to dangerous and/or unsafe surroundings, I "Carry". And due to circumstances that relate to where I live, I sleep with a suitably equipped handgun on the night-stand right next to my bed......fully loaded and cocked.--------When seconds count, the Police are (in my case) 10 to 20 minutes away)!........Having NO immediate neighbors and not being able to see another building or (house) certainly has it's advantages (wildlife, 100yd range and fishing in the creek), but immediate assistance when needed is another story-----you provide your own------35 years and counting
The Hayden, ID incident is indeed VERY tragic...................but IMHO it certainly was preventible.

The police chief of Peach Tree Ga, just shot his wife in the back because he thought he would be safer sleeping with a loaded and cocked gun. I hope you sleep alone.
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Old 01-02-2015, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Martinez, ca
297 posts, read 278,697 times
Reputation: 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
.......Very intelligent post......I agree with your thought process and logic.

I have lived with guns 73 years of my almost 83 years on this earth. I worked for almost 40 years that required I occassionaly travel through and/or be in certain areas that, "it made sense to have a hand-gun on my person". On three occasions in those 40 years, when it became appearent that I was armed.........the "threat" went-away!

To this day, when I think that I will be subjecting myself to dangerous and/or unsafe surroundings, I "Carry". And due to circumstances that relate to where I live, I sleep with a suitably equipped handgun on the night-stand right next to my bed......fully loaded and cocked.--------When seconds count, the Police are (in my case) 10 to 20 minutes away)!........Having NO immediate neighbors and not being able to see another building or (house) certainly has it's advantages (wildlife, 100yd range and fishing in the creek), but immediate assistance when needed is another story-----you provide your own------35 years and counting
The Hayden, ID incident is indeed VERY tragic...................but IMHO it certainly was preventible.
Thank you for the post.

I grew up in an area where we had metal detectors in our school. It made sense to me at the time to have a gun in the house as my mom was highly proficient with a shot gun. During my entire childhood neither I nor my sister ever played with it because we were "gun educated" (with a belt, lol) early on.
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