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Old 12-31-2014, 08:47 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,545 posts, read 18,468,888 times
Reputation: 3689

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
We are a gun owning society and I don't think anything is going to change that. Neither can you legislate away stupidity which is what got this woman killed. Look how many stupid people are out on the roads and they have all passed tests. So the question is how do you mitigate stupidity? How do you try to limit stupid behavior with guns? I learned to shoot at High School and safety was high on the agenda. Lessons learned young tend to stick longer. I would be in favor of gun safety being on the curriculum as part of the basic civics class.
less than 50% of households own guns. i think it's actually less than 40% now. which means somewhere between 50-60% of households do not own a gun.

it's been changing for decades. it's just the people who want guns really really really want them, and lots of them. which is fine - but people keep saying we're a gun society when it's not as true as many want to believe.

my father owns guns. around 12 of them. none of his 3 children's households have them though. guns are fun. i enjoy going to a range and shooting. but i just have no reason to have them in my home.
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Old 12-31-2014, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,332 posts, read 4,183,795 times
Reputation: 18405
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
It's a catch-22, if you make a CWP class involved enough to be beneficial, people will have a lot of ire over not passing it, or it being so involved that it infringes on the 2A.
Alas, that's very true. I do think that CCW classes could at least cover some of the non-legal issues in passing, though, and perhaps indicate some of the resources that are available out there for further education and training. Not everyone would follow up, of course, but it would point them in the right direction.

Quote:
This is why I think people should take, of their own accord, proper training and courses to actually USE a firearm and not just carry it like some sort of magic talisman that it isn't.
I know I've talked more than one person out of owning a self-defense firearm by simply going over the reality of what's involved in storing it safely and training to use it effectively. The folks in question were definitely thinking "magic talisman - I point it at the bad guy and he'll go away." When they were in possession of the facts, they decided owning a gun wasn't for them - which in their case was a good thing, since they didn't have the time or the willingness to train properly.

"Gun as magic talisman" thinking is all too prevalent in our society. For the anti-gun folks, it's a magic talisman of EEEVIL! For the pro-gun folks, it's a magic talisman of PROTECTION! In reality, of course, it's neither - just a dangerous tool that requires significant training to carry and use effectively.

Quote:
You can't legislate common sense, though.
True. Would that we could!
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Altadena, CA
1,580 posts, read 1,552,028 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post

Why wasn't the safety on? I'm glad the child wasn't killed.

Hopefully the poor child won't remember accidentally killing his mother.
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,332 posts, read 4,183,795 times
Reputation: 18405
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
Why wasn't the safety on?
Not all handguns have external safetys - and in any case, they are EASY to disengage. A safety DOES NOT make a handgun safe!
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Old 12-31-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,949 posts, read 2,832,499 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
less than 50% of households own guns. i think it's actually less than 40% now. which means somewhere between 50-60% of households do not own a gun.

it's been changing for decades. it's just the people who want guns really really really want them, and lots of them. which is fine - but people keep saying we're a gun society when it's not as true as many want to believe.

my father owns guns. around 12 of them. none of his 3 children's households have them though. guns are fun. i enjoy going to a range and shooting. but i just have no reason to have them in my home.
Compared to other nations---we are.

That said, rock on. I have no issues with people who don't want to own a firearm. That's their personal business. However, them getting in MY business is unacceptable, and I will lobby right back at them to retain the rights they are trying to legislate away.
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:04 AM
 
1,302 posts, read 832,542 times
Reputation: 2704
Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Damon View Post
Very sad and tragic.

As the report states it is very common up in that area to carry loaded weapons. I have no problem whatsoever with that proclivity, yet, of course, it sets you up for not particularly uncommon gun accidents of the sort.

I'll get grief from the those who cannot conceive of a life lived otherwise, but I chuckle while recalling chatting with a friend speaking of her father-in-law from rural Idaho and when borrowing his truck to go to the grocery store there she had to endure a 10 minute orientation of where the three loaded guns were hidden in the truck for those times when needed. I'm thinking to myself, in freaking rural safe Idaho (my family is from there) how can this be what is a cornerstone of everyday life? I just think the response to the actual threat is so often vastly over compensated that it can easily get you in trouble (if ever there was an understatement of a word.)

I grew up hunting and to this day enjoy target practice and skeet shooting occasionally but there is not one time in my 53 years of life that I ever wish I had or even slightly (and I've lived in and traveled frequently in those supposedly crazy dangerous cities all over the world) needed a gun in any other situation. Call me lackadaisical but if I am feeling I need several guns to defend myself from folks around me I'll just move.
I'm a 35 yr old city dweller with a young family, and I appreciate this perspective. I believe people have the right to bear arms, but I question whether that right should be as unfettered as it is now. Do people really need the assault rifles, or multiple guns for defense? You hit the nail on the head when you wrote the lines below:

"I just think the response to the actual threat is so often vastly over compensated that it can easily get you in trouble"


"Call me lackadaisical but if I am feeling I need several guns to defend myself from folks around me I'll just move."

Thanks for your post.
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: NWA/SWMO
2,949 posts, read 2,832,499 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
Why wasn't the safety on? I'm glad the child wasn't killed.

Hopefully the poor child won't remember accidentally killing his mother.
Many firearms do not have "active" safeties. I know none of my pistols except for my M&P Shield 9mm do. This is why the finger stays "on register" until there is a need to engage a target. Too many people will keep that finger on the trigger while moving around their home after hearing a noise (A very bad idea as the CQB training with simunitions I took showed. Exchanging gunfire in a structure by yourself, potentially being ambushed is a nasty proposition).

The issue with this is the startle reflex when someone unexpected comes around a corner and there's your kid/wife/dog getting some water in the kitchen. Even odds you squeeze that trigger. Best case scenario is a hole in one of your walls.

The finger belongs on a non-movable part of the firearm with a unique feel until it is pointed at something AND you have decided to engage that something. I personally prefer the chamber/barrel-hood area of my M&P's. They all feel the same. They all feel NOTHING AT ALL like a trigger.

This would cut down on ND's and collateral immensely if all police departments and civilian training were to include this.

A quick and dirty test of this is to play some Call of Duty. The trigger on the game controller moves similar distance to that of a pistol, if a bit easier. Watch how many people spray their own teammates on COD and you can do the math on the human startle reflex. Imagine how keyed up you'd be in real life? I'm not at ALL saying COD is a training tool, just a quick and free less on on the human startle reflex when there is a trigger-like thing under your finger.
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:06 AM
 
2,493 posts, read 2,198,382 times
Reputation: 3351
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWG223 View Post
It was the mother's fault, and she would have been on the hook if the bullet had struck someone/something else. As it was, she is still on the hook. The 2 year mentality could not not have met the definition of Mens Rae, nor could they have reasonably foreseen the results of their actions, and thus could not be punished by law for either premeditated murder, or negligent homocide, regardless of their age (presuming we assume a 30 year old mentally retarded person with the processing of a 2 year old, if you want to argue that age was the only factor causing people not to call for their trial).

So you are say that the quote "guns don't kill people, people kill people" is only true some of the time?

Last edited by Eddyline; 12-31-2014 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:08 AM
 
Location: On The Road Full Time RVing
2,342 posts, read 2,914,603 times
Reputation: 2224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondu54 View Post
America's obsession with guns. What's that saying by pro gun owners, "guns don't kill people, they are inanimate objects..."

I know very little about guns but how could a 2 year old pull the trigger? Wouldn't a bullet also have to be in the chamber and no safety on?
Safety leavers on guns are real easy to click off.

Most guns have hair triggers which are easy to squeeze off.

.
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Old 12-31-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: On The Road Full Time RVing
2,342 posts, read 2,914,603 times
Reputation: 2224
.
Thousands of people ( men and women ) carry guns every day,
and you do not know who they are.

In restaurants, stores, banks, busses, trains, boats, subways, etc.

.
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